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| 1 |
From: Lionel Ghoti <shavian-egroup@d...>
Date: Tue Jan 12, 1999 1:19am
Subject: Welcome to the shavian E-Mail Group
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From: <nrstewart@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 28, 1999 2:59pm
Subject: Dictionaries
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I am trying to find an interacting dictionary on the Web that provides British pronunciations. I have had no luck so far. Has someone found a site with one?
NRStewart@a...
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| 3 |
From: <rsrichmond@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 1999 1:29pm
Subject: Shaw Alphabet links page
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I'm Bob Richmond, a 60 year old pathologist in Knoxville, Tennessee.I've been writing Shaw alphabet since I found a copy of Androcles and the Lion right after it was published in the early sixties. I'm starting a links page to connect people interested in the Shaw Alphabet. It's at
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html
Keep writing!
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| 4 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 16, 1999 0:34am
Subject: Hello....
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Hello there... Well, I'm a beginning user of Shavian... I've noticed very,
_very_ few resources on the WWW for Shavian- Three different Unicode
pages, 2 PDFs, a couple sites with actual Shavian text, two sites with
Shavian TrueType fonts, one TeX/LaTeX metafont on many archives... But not
much else, it seems...
One idea, dunno if it'll help spread Shavian though, is to get Yahoo! to
add a Shavian category, and get some of our links there... :)
Now, off to practise... :)
....Quozl!
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| 5 |
From: <rsrichmond@a...>
Date: Thu Feb 18, 1999 11:54am
Subject: Shaw Alphabet links page
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I've posted considerably more material on my Shaw Alphabet links page http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html including an introduction to the alphabet and transliterations of Jabberwocky and a fiendish test of the alphabet written by GBS himself. - But still no word from the mysterious Lionel Ghoti!
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| 6 |
From: Ixbalam <jaguar@b...>
Date: Thu Feb 25, 1999 2:19am
Subject: Intro
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Hi all
I've been playing around with Shavian for a while now and finally decided
to delurk on the mailing list. I've even tried making a bitmapped font for the
Apple IIgs. That one still needs a bit of work and so does my Shavian. <G>
Things I'm wondering about:
1) Has anyone looked into the possibility of an alternative keymap for typing
in Shavian? I use Dvorak layout and it works well enough but the character
frequencies and hand changes are bound to be different than English in Roman
characters. It's a possibility for the future anyway.
2) Has anyone found an editor that's adaptable to saving Shavian text in Unicode
using the private use space or written something for editing or conversions
into that format or anything besides styled formats with a Shavian font?
--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam
"While intelligent people can often simplify the complex,
a fool is more likely to complicate the simple."
-Gerald W. Grumet
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| 7 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Fri Feb 26, 1999 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Intro
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> Hi all
>
> I've been playing around with Shavian for a while now and
> finally decided
> to delurk on the mailing list.
[snip]
> Things I'm wondering about:
>
> 2) Has anyone found an editor that's adaptable to saving Shavian
> text in Unicode
> using the private use space or written something for editing
> or conversions
AFAIK While there are several Unicode-aware programs available, none handle
Unicode properly, that is to say they don't give you an easy way to key in
the characters, or they occasionally 'forget' to save as Unicode. Try the
latest version of Word, that may do it. I do recall a special multi-language
word processor that let you key in any character under the sun, but I don't
think it used Unicode.
Good Luck!
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@o...
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| 8 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Fri Feb 26, 1999 2:39pm
Subject: Testing
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| 9 |
From: Ixbalam <jaguar@b...>
Date: Mon Mar 1, 1999 1:01am
Subject: Re: Intro
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In the message "RE: [shavian] Intro" dated 1999.02.26
(9:02 AM -0500), you wrote:
> AFAIK While there are several Unicode-aware programs available,
none handle
> Unicode properly, that is to say they don't give you an easy way
to key in
> the characters, or they occasionally 'forget' to save as
Unicode. Try the
> latest version of Word, that may do it. I do recall a special
multi-language
> word processor that let you key in any character under the sun,
but I don't
> think it used Unicode.
I've seen
several editors that used it for Asian languages but can't think of
anything intended for editing the private use space characters like
Shavian, Klingon and Tolkien's languages.
I
think with Unicode it's a case of a complete solution with everything
going for it but not being very widely adopted, like the PNG graphics
format.
Fv sIn sevxl editxz TAt Vzd it fP Ezan laNgYiJiz but kant
Tink uv AnITN intendid fP editN H pxivit jMs spEs kXyctxz lFk SEvWn,
tlingn n tolkInz laNgYiJiz.
F
Tink wiH jMnikOd itz a kEs uv a kumplIt sOlMSn wiH evxITiN gON fP it
but nyt bIN vXI wFdli adoptid, lFk H piN gRafiks
fPmAt.
Please
excuse my inexperience with Shavian and maybe unreadable
formatting. Does everyone else prefer HTML or richtext
formatting in email?
--
Michael J. Rider,
aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam
"Power may justly be compared to a great River, which while kept
within
its due Bounds, is both Beautiful and Useful; but when it
overflows
its Banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemm'd, bears
down all
before it, and brings Destruction and Desolation wherever it
comes."
-John Peter Zenger
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| 10 |
From: Lionel Ghoti <ghoti@d...>
Date: Mon Mar 1, 1999 11:40am
Subject: Shavian e-mail formatting
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Part of the HTML-formatted text below is written in the Shavian alphabet. To read it you will need a Shavian font, such as Lionspaw, Shaw-Gothic or Shaw-Rough. Links explaining where you can download them can be found at www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/fonts.html
Michael Rider asked if people prefer HTML or rich-text formatting in e-mail, and I'm confused. I thought that there were only two types of e-mail formatting: plain text and HTML-formatted text. Is there some sort of RTF standard as well? I use Outlook Express, and I prefer HTML-formatted e-mail (though Michael's Shavian text didn't appear properly on my computer, because the font name he used was "ShawRough", but the Shaw Rough font I have on my computer is registered with Windows as "Shaw"). I've created an HTML stationery file to be used with Outlook Express, which specifies the names of all the Shavian fonts I know of. This seems to work fine, but I've looked at the HTML of the messages I've sent, and it seems that Outlook Express has fiddled around with the HTML tags from my template, inserting all sorts of weird character combinations. Could everyone please tell me whether or not the Shavian portion of this message displays properly in their email program?
Lionel Ghoti
/mFkal /rFdD yskt if pIpal prifx HTML P ric-tekst fPmAtiN in I-mEl, n F'm kanfVzd. F TYt HAt HX wx OnlI tM tFps v I-mEl fPmAtiN: plEn tekst n HTML-fPmAtid tekst. iz HX sum sPt v RTF stAndDd Az wel? F Vz /QtlUk /ikspres, n F prifx HTML-fPmAtid I-mEl (HO /mFkal'z /SEvWn tekst didn't apC propDlI on mF kampVtD, bikoz H font nEm hI Vzd woz "ShawRough", but H /SY /ruf font F hAv on mF kampVtD iz reJistDd wiH /windOz Az "Shaw"). F'v krIEtid an HTML stESanarI fFl fP /QtlUk /ikspres, wic spesifFz H nEmz v Yl H /SEvWn fonts F nO of. His sImz t wxk fFn, but F'v lUkt At H HTML v H mesiJiz F'v sent, n it sImz hAt /QtlUk /ikspres hAz fidald DQnd wiH H HTML tAgz from mF templEt, insxtiN Yl sPts v wIDd kAriktD kombinEsanz. kUd evrIwon plIz tel mI weHD P not H /SEvWn pPSan v His mesiJ displEz propDlI in HX I-mEl prOgrAm?
/lFanal /fiS
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| 11 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Mon Mar 1, 1999 3:00pm
Subject: Usage of Shavian fonts, etc.
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*mirf!* It seems eGroups has one _MAJOR_ flaw with its mailing-list
setup-- There's no "Reply-to:" mechanism to reply directly to the list....
:/
Anyhoo, it seems that DeMeyere's Shavian fonts are flawed in the
font-naming conventions if used in Windows, at least, as regardless
whether one uses ShawRough or ShawGothic, Windows reads it as "Shaw" The
only way I know to fix this somehow is to run the fonts through a font
editor, not exactly an option handy to many of us... :/
I think it's nice, actually, to have different font styles, obviously, but
we do need at least one standard Shaw font to use across platforms. As
with Mr. Rider, who is a friend of mine, he is on a Mac, while I use
Windows 3.1 offline here...
Personally, I'm glad that Shavian, regardless of font, adheres to a single
keymapping that makes usage of _any_ font possible. As for Mr. Rider's
query about using a different keymapping to accomodate his keyboard, I'm
not sure about Macs (or Apples, for that matter), but there should be
keybord remapping utilities that he can configure for his choice of
keys... :) I do know of such utilities for Windows, at least...
Anyhoo....
D.M.Falk, aka Quozl...
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| 12 |
From: Ixbalam <jaguar@b...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 2:14am
Subject: Re: Usage of Shavian fonts, etc.
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In the message "[shavian] Usage of Shavian fonts, etc." dated 1999.03.01
(10:00 AM -0500), Quozl wrote:
> *mirf!* It seems eGroups has one _MAJOR_ flaw with its mailing-list
> setup-- There's no "Reply-to:" mechanism to reply directly to the list....
Agreed, that's annoying.
> Anyhoo, it seems that DeMeyere's Shavian fonts are flawed in the
> font-naming conventions if used in Windows, at least, as regardless
> whether one uses ShawRough or ShawGothic, Windows reads it as "Shaw" The
> only way I know to fix this somehow is to run the fonts through a font
> editor, not exactly an option handy to many of us... :/
Are the fonts given the names with no spaces or with hyphens in
them on Windows though? And you're right, a consistent cross-platform
generic font would be incredibly useful.
> Personally, I'm glad that Shavian, regardless of font, adheres to a single
> keymapping that makes usage of _any_ font possible. As for Mr. Rider's
> query about using a different keymapping to accomodate his keyboard, I'm
> not sure about Macs (or Apples, for that matter), but there should be
> keybord remapping utilities that he can configure for his choice of
> keys... :) I do know of such utilities for Windows, at least...
It was just an idea and a possible area for future inquiry. But
mapping each Shavian character to a definite ASCII character is great. Or
at least the best we can do until everyone uses two-byte text. =^.^=
I _have_ been looking for more samples of typical writing to see
what the most common characters are. There isn't much out there yet so
I've been running practice Shavian text files and 'normal' text files
through a snippet of BASIC to see what the typical frequencies are. If I
think they're different enough for a different keymap to be useful, I'll
work up a Mac kchr keymap for it. And yes, I'm weird. <G>
--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam
"Power may justly be compared to a great River, which while kept within
its due Bounds, is both Beautiful and Useful; but when it overflows
its Banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemm'd, bears down all
before it, and brings Destruction and Desolation wherever it comes."
-John Peter Zenger
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| 13 |
From: Ixbalam <jaguar@b...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 1:48am
Subject: Re: Shavian e-mail formatting
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In the message "[shavian] Shavian e-mail formatting" dated 1999.03.01 (6:40
AM -0500), Lionel Ghoti wrote:
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
>
> <META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1
>http-equiv=Content-Type><TITLE>Shavian Email Template</TITLE><!DOCTYPE
>HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD
>W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><BASE
> href="file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Stationery\">
> <META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> <P><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>Part of the HTML-formatted text
>below
> is written in the Shavian alphabet. To read it you will need a Shavian font,
> such as Lionspaw, Shaw-Gothic or Shaw-Rough. Links explaining where you can
> download them can be found at <A
href="http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/fonts.html">www.homeusers.p
restel.co.uk/den/shavian/fonts.html</A></FONT></P>
> <P><FONT color=#000000 face=Lionspaw size=5
> ,"Shaw","Shaw-Rough","Shaw-Gothic","Shaw Rough","Shaw
> Gothic","Shavian"></FONT>Michael Rider asked if people prefer HTML or
>rich-text
> formatting in e-mail, and I'm confused. I thought that there were only
>two types
> of e-mail formatting: plain text and HTML-formatted text. Is there some
>sort of
> RTF standard as well? I use Outlook Express, and I prefer HTML-formatted
>e-mail
> (though Michael's Shavian text didn't appear properly on my computer,
>because
> the font name he used was "ShawRough", but the Shaw Rough font
>I have
> on my computer is registered with Windows as "Shaw"). I've
>created an
> HTML stationery file to be used with Outlook Express, which specifies the
>names
> of all the Shavian fonts I know of. This <EM>seems</EM> to work fine, but
>I've
> looked at the HTML of the messages I've sent, and it seems that Outlook
>Express
> has fiddled around with the HTML tags from my template, inserting all
>sorts of
> weird character combinations. Could everyone please tell me whether or
>not the
> Shavian portion of this message displays properly in their email program?</P>
Actually, Eudora Pro 4.0 (Macintosh) couldn't make heads or tails
of it and neither could anything else I have that can read HTML, except
Internet Explorer which did display it properly. The problem was the weird
MSHTML that only MS tools seem to understand properly. The strange font
tags were the greatest cause of trouble.
> <P><FONT color=#000000 face=Lionspaw size=5
> ,"Shaw","Shaw-Rough","Shaw-Gothic","Shaw Rough","Shaw
>Gothic","Shavian">/mFkal
The non-quoted stuff I can live with, but listing alternate fonts
in a comma delimited list inside the font tag after everything else? And
the purpose of the multiple doctype declarations is a mystery to me.
There is an RTF format for sending styled text in mail that Eudora,
Cyberdog and MacSOUP use. Others may or may not support it but the most
common mail readers seem to be Netscape, OE and AOL and I'm not sure how
well they understand it.
Maybe we could try sending out two versions with an [HTML] tag in
the subject of the formatted version. Eudora gives you the option of
stripping out styles on send so it would be easy to queue the same message
twice with and without HTML. In fact I sent a copy of that last message
directly to Quozl that way because he's on a shell account.
Or perhaps attaching RTF files to unstyled messages, which might be
less troublesome.
There is also a slight issue that may be the cause of
Dennis/Quozl's problem. I notice that the names listed for the DeMeyere
fonts in this message were Shaw-Gothic and Shaw-Rough and 'Shaw Gothic' and
'Shaw Rough'. The names they have on Macintosh are ShawGothic and
ShawRough, which my earlier message used.
--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam
"Power may justly be compared to a great River, which while kept within
its due Bounds, is both Beautiful and Useful; but when it overflows
its Banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemm'd, bears down all
before it, and brings Destruction and Desolation wherever it comes."
-John Peter Zenger
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| 14 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 4:52am
Subject: Re: Usage of Shavian fonts, etc.
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>
> In the message "[shavian] Usage of Shavian fonts, etc." dated 1999.03.01
> (10:00 AM -0500), Quozl wrote:
>
> > *mirf!* It seems eGroups has one _MAJOR_ flaw with its mailing-list
> > setup-- There's no "Reply-to:" mechanism to reply directly to the list....
>
> Agreed, that's annoying.
Tried a group-reply, this time- Apologies for the double-emails, Ixy...
> > Anyhoo, it seems that DeMeyere's Shavian fonts are flawed in the
> > font-naming conventions if used in Windows, at least, as regardless
> > whether one uses ShawRough or ShawGothic, Windows reads it as "Shaw" The
> > only way I know to fix this somehow is to run the fonts through a font
> > editor, not exactly an option handy to many of us... :/
>
> Are the fonts given the names with no spaces or with hyphens in
> them on Windows though? And you're right, a consistent cross-platform
> generic font would be incredibly useful.
With spaces, I believe...
> > Personally, I'm glad that Shavian, regardless of font, adheres to a single
> > keymapping that makes usage of _any_ font possible. As for Mr. Rider's
> > query about using a different keymapping to accomodate his keyboard, I'm
> > not sure about Macs (or Apples, for that matter), but there should be
> > keybord remapping utilities that he can configure for his choice of
> > keys... :) I do know of such utilities for Windows, at least...
>
> It was just an idea and a possible area for future inquiry. But
> mapping each Shavian character to a definite ASCII character is great. Or
> at least the best we can do until everyone uses two-byte text. =^.^=
Well, I should correct myself and should've said in the above, "character
mapping", rather than "keymapping"-- Keymapping should, at best, be at the
individual's discretion, just as one would be using an ergonomic or Dvorak
keyboard, rather than good ol' QWERTY. Character mapping _should_ be
standardised-- Lord only knows how many non-Roman languages I've seen in
which have varying numbers of incompatible character sets-- Inuktitut,
Pahawh Hmong, Cherokee, Hindi... At least with Shavian, we can take any
text, highlight it, and change fonts- It'll read exactly the same. :) Much
as we already can read any ISO-Latin-1 text (in Windows, at least) with
just about any font we choose... :)
As for two-byte text, Win9x has support for it, and many newer fonts are
supporting the extended character set offered, but there are very few
options available to a legacy OS like Win3.x, which I use (offline)...
Even still, one would _still_ have to switch between fonts for whatever
typeface style to choose...
> I _have_ been looking for more samples of typical writing to see
> what the most common characters are. There isn't much out there yet so
> I've been running practice Shavian text files and 'normal' text files
> through a snippet of BASIC to see what the typical frequencies are. If I
> think they're different enough for a different keymap to be useful, I'll
> work up a Mac kchr keymap for it. And yes, I'm weird. <G>
One of the few Shavian sites, I believe, has three essays entirely in
Shavian-- A good start, but maybe there should be more? :) Not merely
essays, but functional, typical web-pages, such as (for example) a Shavian
links page...? :) Oddly enough, in spite of the lack of Shavian material,
there is perhaps more Shavian on the web NOW than there ever has been in
print, which was, for all practical purposes, was limited to Shaw's
"Androcles and the Lion", and any notes therein... Let's see-- Two poems,
a prayer, 3 essays, two PDFs with sample text... Am I missing something?
:) Amongst the 2 DeMeyere fonts (In which I had to convert ShawGothic for
Windows use myself) and Lionel's "Lionspaw", there's also (at least) a TeX
metafont (an many, many archives) called "Shavian"... And of course, Mr.
Rider's Shavian font for the Apple IIgs...
D.M.Falk, aka Quozl...
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| 15 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Shavian e-mail formatting
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Yep. Works OK for me. Except it didn't print properly.
Oulook seems to support some sort of RTF standard, but I think most people would have trouble with it, as they do with HTML. I'm using Oulook, but I still get garbled HTML messages.
Part of the HTML-formatted text below is written in the Shavian alphabet. To read it you will need a Shavian font, such as Lionspaw, Shaw-Gothic or Shaw-Rough. Links explaining where you can download them can be found at www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/fonts.html
Michael Rider asked if people prefer HTML or rich-text formatting in e-mail, and I'm confused. I thought that there were only two types of e-mail formatting: plain text and HTML-formatted text. Is there some sort of RTF standard as well? I
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| 16 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Intro
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|
I can see that we would end up with a Chinese unicode font, a Cyrillic unicode font and so-on, instead of a global font that had every possible character in it. However, in a lot of foreign languages that use a different alphabet, I've noticed they do tend to drop back to the Latin font occasionally. Names, usually, but sometimes other terms that don't translate well I think.
BTW What's PNG? I've heard the term, but it now escapes me.
Incidentally, your attempt at Shavian came out looking like this:
Fv sIn sevxl editxz TAt Vzd it fP Ezan laNgYiJiz
[snip]
I've seen several editors that used it for Asian languages but can't think of anything intended for editing the private use space characters like Shavian, Klingon and Tolkien's languages.
I think with Unicode it's a case of a complete solution with everything going for it but not being very widely adopted, like the PNG graphics format.
[snip]
Please excuse my inexperience with Shavian and maybe unreadable formatting. Does everyone else prefer HTML or richtext formatting in email?
--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam
[snip]
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| 17 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 1:22pm
Subject: Attachments
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Evenin' All...
What's the general rule about posting attachments in this group? I want to
distribute my Shaw Script font and this is the only method available to me
at the moment. But I feel by doing it this way, I will just be spamming
everyone unnecessarily.
BTW if we do ever get to reform our spelling, might I suggest that
"necessary" be the first word out the door... :-(
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@o...
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| 18 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Intro
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> I can see that we would end up with a Chinese unicode font, a Cyrillic
> unicode font and so-on, instead of a global font that had every possible
> character in it. However, in a lot of foreign languages that use a different
> alphabet, I've noticed they do tend to drop back to the Latin font
> occasionally. Names, usually, but sometimes other terms that don't translate
> well I think.
The largest known Unicode font has only about 1/2 of the complete Unicode
set, or almost 28,000 characters, so far... Naturally, it's something like
10 or so megs in size...
> BTW What's PNG? I've heard the term, but it now escapes me.
Portable Network Graphics, pronounced "PiNG"-- Intended to be a
replacement to the GIF format, and is better at lossless compression than
any previous format, and can do 24-bit... (LPEG compresses better, only
because it's lossy, but can't do anything other than 24-bit colour or
8-bit greyscale...)
D.M.Falk, who did a little time in the PiNG development...
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| 19 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Tue Mar 2, 1999 7:50pm
Subject: Attachments
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> From: "A.M.Callaway" <acal@o...>
>
> Evenin' All...
>
> What's the general rule about posting attachments in this group? I want to
> distribute my Shaw Script font and this is the only method available to me
> at the moment. But I feel by doing it this way, I will just be spamming
> everyone unnecessarily.
You could always forward the font to one of us (instead of the list) to
have it placed on a webpage-- I am _not_ sure how eGroups handles file
attatchments... I'm working on a Shavian page, meself, and would be happy
to host the font for you... :)
> BTW if we do ever get to reform our spelling, might I suggest that
> "necessary" be the first word out the door... :-(
Shavian isn't supposed to reform our _vocabulary_, just how we _write_
English... Typing it would be like "neseserI"... (Note: Since I'm not
using this mailing list in a web-based environment, I cannot do font
tags... Even then, my online browser is Lynx... Just highlight the word
and change the font to one of the Shavian fonts... Oh, and _offline_
font-based text isn't a problem to me... :) )
D.M.Falk
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| 20 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Fri Mar 5, 1999 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Attachments
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> You could always forward the font to one of us (instead of the list) to
> have it placed on a webpage
I've already sent the font to a couple of people (Hugh, Ross) and basically
got the response "It's a very nice font, but..." However, I think I've
sorted out all its problems now, so the response might be a little more
positive.
> I'm working on a Shavian page, meself, and would be happy
> to host the font for you... :)
Why thankyou kind sir. However, I think you should look at the font before
committing yourself. I'll send you a private message with it attached, so
you can judge it for yourself.
> Shavian isn't supposed to reform our _vocabulary_, just how we _write_
> English... Typing it would be like "neseserI"...
I'm just complaining about the fact that it's one of the few words that I
/always/ have to look up in the dictionary before using it.
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@o...
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| 21 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Fri Mar 5, 1999 1:24pm
Subject: VIRUS ALERT
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WARNING WARNING WARNING
If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" DO NOT OPEN
IT. It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard disk. This is a new, very
malicious virus and not many people know about it yet.
This information was announced yesterday by IBM.
Also, do not open, or even look at any mail that says "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO
DELIVER." This virus will attach itself to your computer components and
render them useless. Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL
has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO REMEDY for
it at this time.
This information was passed on by Compaq
Please forward this email on to everyone in your address book.
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@o...
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| 22 |
From: <mixsynth@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 7, 1999 9:56pm
Subject: Mailing List
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Hi all!
This is the first time I've posted something here... I tried a short time ago but it didn't seem to work; never mind though. I'm just wondering if anyone would like any conversations in Shavian? (i.e. using a Shavian font with an HTML-capable browser.) It's always good for practice.
If so, jolly good - drop me a line! BTW, see my site (with Shavian stuff) at http://www.soundbox.freeserve.co.uk.
Hopefully I'll be hearing from you soon...
Hugh Birkenhead
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| 23 |
From: A.M.Callaway <acal@o...>
Date: Thu Mar 11, 1999 2:13pm
Subject: Latin alpha > phonetic translator
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Evenin' All...
I thought you'd like to know, I'm currently working on a program that takes
english text in our standard alphabet, and translates it into a phonetic
equivalent. Once I've debugged it, I'll make it available.
BTW this is not an ad, as the program will be offered for free.
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@o...
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| 24 |
From: <sidban2@e...>
Date: Sat Mar 13, 1999 7:31pm
Subject: Penpal for Shavian Script
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Hi! I would like a penpal who can teach me how to
use the typewriter to correspond in Shavian Script.
I know the script well enough but I do not understand
how to send the script through e-mail. Also, I am not
sophisticated about Unicode. If you explain this to me
please explain it like this: first, do this, second, do
that, etc. I will just follow instructions. There is a
lot of vocabulary I am not familiar with so that is why I
need someone to explain things clearly to me. I wrote to
Mr. Kingsley Read for three years before his death and also
was interested in his Quikscript and Sound-Spell. Sincerely, Sid sidban2@excite.com
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| 25 |
From: <rsrichmond@a...>
Date: Sat Mar 13, 1999 9:50pm
Subject: e-mailing Shaw - Sid's question
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Sid asks about how to e-mail text in Shaw Alphabet. The simplest way to do it is to compose the text in a word processor, using one of the Shaw fonts, and paste it into an e-mail document, and e-mail it. It will arrive in the default alphabet of the recipient's e-mail, looking like badly hashed English (or Klingon). The recipient pastes this text into a word processing document, and then changes the font to one of the Shaw fonts. (The three Shaw fonts are interchangeable for this purpose, and one may send from Macintosh to the Slough of DOSpond or vice versa.) If conventional orthography is mixed in with the Shaw Alphabet, one must work around it when converting the rest of the document to Shaw.
I must apologize for not responding to some notes about this subject last week. I was tending to my wife, who underwent a total knee replacement (and is doing very well).
Sid also raises the subject of Kingsley Read's later modifications of the Shaw Alphabet, which received only minimal publication because the Shaw estate withdrew financial support. I plan to post information about these later developments on my Web site when I can get a scanner working. Right now there are no Web resources for them.
As far as I know Unicode is of no help as yet, though it's been under development for several years. The Unicode site is valuable for its graphics.
Sid, if you - and everyone else who hasn't done it - will transliterate Shaw's curious document (it's on my Web site), I'll post it to my Web site. Please include your name (with permission for me to link to your e-mail address), your year of birth, and a brief description of your English pronunciation (such as where you grew up).
Bob Richmond
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html
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| 26 |
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Sun Mar 14, 1999 0:07am
Subject: ShawScript TTF font; Shavian poem in PDF
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| 27 |
From: Ross DeMeyere <ross@d...>
Date: Sat Mar 20, 1999 2:58pm
Subject: Important News about Shavian
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Hello Shavia!
[summary : version two of fonts online and
a corrected shaw alphabet key has been found!]
First I would like to apologize for the length of time that it has
taken me to develop the gothic version of the font for Windows.
Most of the problem was in the naming of the fonts, so as you
will soon become aware of, I have renamed the fonts.
ShawRough is now Androcles, after the book I used to scan it in
from, and ShawGothic is now called Ghoti, after the much quoted
piece on the absurdity of english spelling by GBShaw.
The renaming will make things easier under Windows and will
simplify the font face= tag in HTML. (please, nobody shoot me.)
Last week I received a letter from David Fox at the Friars in the UK.
He brought to my attention that in the original reading key someone
made a clerical error and swapped the characters for hung and haha.
"The chart on the next page represents the whole system. It
differs from the published version in two ways.
One is a substantive change involving the right hand
symbols of the top two lines of the chart. In the original
version, [looping up] was for 'ng' and [looping down] for 'h'.
This is clearly a clerical error, transposing the values attached
to the two signs. Of the pair, the tall sign at the end of the top
line must be for 'h' (since talls are for unvoiced sounds) and
the deep sign at the end of the second line must be for 'ng'
(since deeps are for voiced sounds). This chart restores the
correct values"
I posted a .gif of this corrected chart at :
http://www.demeyere.com/Shavian/corrShawKey.gif
I have corrected the characters in the fonts... hung is still
accessed by 'N' and haha is still accessed by 'h' so you don't
have to go back and correct anything that you have previously
typed, but anything hand-written in the future will have to be
checked. There are new charts and writing/reading keys in
the new documentation PDF file posted to my site.
(for those of you that have been writing for several years this
will be a big change (Hi Bob!))
[to: John Jenkins, John Cowan, Michael Everson, and others
working on standardizind Shaw Alphabet for Unicode]
the representations of $U+E709/hung and $U+E713/haha
need to be switched...all other things equal
[to all font designers, and webmasters using shavian]
Same thing, the characters for hung and haha get moved
but hung is still accessed by 'N' and haha by 'h'.
And, when describing Shaw Alphabet on websites, the
documentation needs to be changed to reflect this.
(ie, in charts, like the wonderful chart on LionelGhoti's
site) If you are using DeMeyere-brand fonts, you just
need to change the font=face tags from (Shaw, ShawRough,
ShawGothic) to (Androcles, Ghoti).
I noticed over that past few months that there has been
a lot more activity on the web with shavian. I especially like
the work that Bob Richmond has been doing with the links
page, and Lionel Ghoti's site is quite nice.
Hope everyone is doing well, and expect to hear more
from me than you have in the past.
Ross DeMeyere
----------------------------------------------------------
DeMeyere Design Incorporated +1 612 789 2052
1951 McKinley ST NE FAX +1 612 789 8028
Minneapolis MN 55418-4816 <mailto:ross@d...>
U.S.A. <http://www.demeyere.com/>
----------------------------------------------------------
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| 28 |
From: Hugh Birkenhead (@ WGS) <hbirkenhead@w...>
Date: Fri Mar 19, 1999 10:15am
Subject: Apologies for absence
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Unfortunately, I will be unable to communicate with any of you for
quite some time. My computer has (again) gone down, and so I am
writing this from school, on the last day of term. I hope that I can
get it all restored soon. Apologies for not being around.
Hugh
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| 29 |
From: Lee A. Miller <LeeM1023@e...>
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 0:18am
Subject: Another Shaw's alphabet resource
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Another source of information about the alphabet is the following book:
Tauber, Abraham, editor. On Language: George Bernard Shaw. New York: Philosophical Library, 1963.
It's out of print, but worth checking your second-hand bookshops for. It has some information about the resolution of Shaw's will, as well as excerpts from the will itself, the introduction reprinted from Androcles, an insert that was distributed at a performance of "My Fair Lady," and a discussion of Shaw's alphabet versus the ITA.
(There is also some information in the book about Shaw's response to Esperanto, the international language, including correspondence with Reto Rossetti, a well-known Esperanto proponent. As someone actively involved in the current Esperanto movement, I was a little "miffed" to find out Shaw's poor estimation. He never was one to withhold his opinion!)
Lee Miller
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| 30 |
From: <rsrichmond@a...>
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 10:10pm
Subject: changing "ha-ha" and "hung"
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Uh-oh, we've got a serious problem here.
Ross DeMeyere writes: >>Last week I received a letter from David Fox at the Friars in the UK. He brought to my attention that in the original reading key someone made a clerical error and swapped the characters for hung and haha.<< DeMeyere has then gone on, single-handed, to make a change in the Shaw Alphabet.
I have no idea who the Friars may be, but neither friars nor broilers, much less us old stewing chickens, have the authority to make a change in the Shaw Alphabet.
It has always seemed odd to me, contrary to the rest of the Shaw Alphabet, that in the single pair of characters "ha-ha" and "hung" that the voiceless sound should have a descender and the voiced sound an ascender, and I'm not surprised to learn that an error may have occurred here. If however there was an error, it would appear that Kingsley Read did not attempt to fix it, and this seems odd given his careful attention to every detail of the project.
The entire printed Shaw Alphabet text of Androcles and the Lion, in all three type styles, as well as both sides of the Reading Card, are printed with "ha-ha" having a downward loop and "hung" having an upward loop.
The only other publication in Shaw Alphabet using the Stephen Austin matrices that I am aware of, Stanley Marx's printing of "Jabberwocky" in New York in 1963 (more about this publication in another post), uses the same convention.
Kingsley Read's later Quickscript retained the upward-looped "hung", while substituting an entirely different character for "ha-ha". Read's daughter Mavis Read Mottram hand-lettered both the Shaw Alphabet and Quickscript for the University of Reading's catalog of its Kingley Read archive in 1983, several years after Read's death, and retains the original convention also.
Making a change in the Shaw Alphabet thus contravenes the entire published history of the alphabet. I do not feel that either the present Shaw Alphabet community or the Friars has the authority to do this.
I urge Ross Demeyere to reconsider this proposed alteration, at this early time when it can still be undone, or at least to submit it to the entire online Shaw Alphabet community for approval before doing it. Meanwhile I will not support this proposed alteration on my Web site, and will if necessary change my present font-supported format to GIF graphics in order to prevent it.
Bob Richmond
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html
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