|
|
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| 965 |
From: Paul Dennett <paul.dennett@n...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2001 10:45pm
Subject: On the Ning Nang Nong
|
| |
Well no-one has told me to shut up yet so heres something else I
transliterated the other day. I
thought it would be interesting to try various kinds of writing (newspaper
articles, poetry and so on). So
thats my excuse for posting this&
on H /niN /nAN /noN
on H /niN
/nAN /noN
wX H kQz gO
boN
n H muNkIz
Pl sE bM!
HXz a /noN
/nAN /niN
wX H trIz
gO piN!
n H tIpots
Jiba JAba JM.
on H /noN
/niN /nAN
Yl H mFs gO
klAN!
n V Just
kynt kAc am wen HE dM!
sO its /niN
/nAN /noN
kQz gO boN!
/noN /nAN /niN
trIz gO piN
/noN /niN
/nAN
H mFs gO
klAN
wot a nqzI
plEs t bIloN
iz H /niN
nAN /niN /nAN /noN!!
/spFk
/miligan
On the Ning Nang Nong
On
the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!
There's a Nong Nang Ning
Where the trees go Ping!
And the tea pots jibber jabber joo.
On the Nong Ning Nang
All the mice go Clang
And you just can't catch 'em when
they do!
So its Ning Nang Nong
Cows go Bong!
Nong Nang Ning
Trees go ping
Nong Ning Nang
The mice go Clang
What a noisy place to belong
is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong!!
Spike Milligan
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| 966 |
From: Daniel G. Szczurek <twojbrat@w...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Fr. Dan S.
|
| |
Dear friends,
Just a note. My health is messed up, and I am preparing to have a
pacemaker implanted soon to control Congestive Heart Failure.
I have not been able to do much with the Shavian projects, but we did
make a discovery that may be of interest to you. One of the things that has
helped my remedial reading students who use Shavian, including dyslexics, is
the presence of the line of writing, which is missing in most fonts that are
available for the computer.
There appears to be more confusion than necessary with the forms of
letters, because readers cannot easily tell if a letter is tall or deep. It
has helped us to write a bottom stroke, for example, on the "p" letter, so
that readers can tell that it is a tall letter, and a stroke on the top of
the "d" letter to show that the letter is deep. These are not the only
problems for dyslexics, but the stroke helps. The stroke is simply a
representation of the line of writing to locate the letter.
There are still problems with the vowel letters, but I think they can be
remedied without going to the extreme of abandoning Shavian for some kind of
Read alphabet of later design. In leaving out the location of a letter with
regard to the line of writing a lot of problems occur that are not an
artifact of the system itself. I think we have forgotten that the
orientation of the letters to the line of writing is as important in their
design as is their shape. I hope that people haven't continued to abandoned
the original alphabet we were using, and so hopelessly dividing the
"Shavian" community.
I am not able to do a lot of Shavian transcription lately, because of
the heart problem. I am working with a committee on a new, easy-to-read
translation of the New Testament into Urdu. This takes up quite a lot of
time. I would say, in closing, that new readers don't want to read overly
simple things. Though they are often new to reading, they are intelligent
people who think profoundly. Dyslexia doesn't make a person an idiot!
I wish you well in your continued efforts. Good work, Hal!!
Fr. Daniel Szczurek
----------
>From: hal9000@h...
>To: shavian@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [shavian] Fr. Dan S.
>Date: Mar Thu, 2001, 12:20
>
> By the way, I exchanged an email or two with Fr. Daniel Sz... (can't
> rememeber how to spell name).
>
> I told him I was sorry to see him unsubscribe and asked if he would
> share why.
>
> He said that there were really only three things discussed there
> anymore: dialect, computer science, and the a/o problem. (And I am
> as guilty of perpetuating these as anyone.) He said it was just too
> much for him to wade through and lately the topics were of minimal
> interest to him.
>
> This person is involved in helping people with their reading skills
> (is it a form of dyslexia he works with? I can't recall). His students
> are adults, I think, and he tranliterates reading material into
> Shavian for them. (Stuff such as works of Martin Buber.)
>
> The point is, while it's mostly a hobby or curiosity to most of us,
> he is actually using it to help people.
>
> Maybe we could find a list of stuff he needed transliterated, get
> machine-readable forms of it, and run some of our software on it. I
> think he does it all by hand.
>
> He also seemed somewhat interested in the idea of Shavian Scrabble
> (without a standardized spelling). So if someone wants to pursue that
> further, it might help him. We already have a rough idea of the
> frequencies, right?
>
> In addition, his health continues to fail. So if any of you are the
> praying type, devote a few moments to an aging Eastern Orthodox
> priest.
>
> Hal Fulton
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
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| 967 |
From: <RSRICHMOND@a...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 10:40pm
Subject: Fr. Dan S.
|
| |
Was wondering if this group was still with us!
Fr. Dan isn't the only one on this list with cardiac problems - I'll probably
be having open heart surgery to replace my aortic valve in the next few
weeks. My wife will post progress notes on our Web site at
http://user.icx.net/~richmond/linkspage.html
Just heard the Knoxville Opera Company do Gilbert and Sullivan's "HMS
Pinafore". Now there's a Shaw Alphabet project - D'Oyly Carte English -
but when the breezes bleow
I gen-er-all-y go beleow
and seek the seclusion that a cabin grawnts
and so do his sistas and his cousins and his awnts....
Bob Richmond
Knoxville TN
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| 968 |
From: Mitchell Morris <Narmical@P...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:28pm
Subject:
|
| |
On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three
on March was taken from a shopping centre in Liverpool
by two 10 year old boys.
Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only
a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him
out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson.
They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles,
along the way stopping every now and again to torture
the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his
mummy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where
they brutally kicked him and threw stones at him and
rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his
anus. They then left his beaten small body on the
tracks so a train could run him over to hide the
mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys
understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to
make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice
Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for
the rest of their lives when they leave custody with
new identities.
We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early
this year only serving just over half of their
sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on
to University. They are getting away with their crime.
They need to pay, and we have to do something to make
them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's
life violently away, and in return they get a new
life. Please add your name and location to the list
and
forward to friends and family. Please copy this email
instead of forwarding so we do not get at the
beginning of sentences. If you are the 200th person to
sign please forward this email to ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
mailto:cust.ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk attentioning it to
Lady Justice Butler-Sloss, Then start the list over
again and sent to your friends and family. The
Love-Bug virus took less that 72 hours to reach the
world. I hope this one does too. We need to protect
our family and friends from creatures like Robert and
Jon. One day they may be living next to you and your
small
children without your knowledge. If Robert and Jon
could be so evil at 10, imagine what they could do as
adults?
1. Angelia Hemmingway, Hamilton, New Zealand
2. Jolene Rowe, Auckland, NZ
3. Evan Graham, Auckland, NZ
4. Laura Cole, Auckland, NZ
5.Grant Cole, Auckland, NZ
6. Leanne Whyte,Auckland,NZ
7. Jackie Deacon Auckland NZ
8. Aimee Walmsley,Auckland, New Zealand
9. Natasha Barker, Auckland, New Zealand
10. Debra Aldred, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
11. Robin Williamson Perth Australia
12. Amanda Gryg, Perth, Australia
13. Charlii W, NSW, Australia
14. Karen C., Sydney Australia
15. Allan H, Sydney Australia
16. Jessica H Sydney Australia
17. Michelle M, Sydney Australia
18. Chris M, Sydney Australia
19. Lachlan M, Sydney Australia
20. Debra Williams, Sydney Australia
21. Elizabeth Williams, Sydney Australia
22. Anthony Williams, Sydney Australia
23.Danielle Dennis, Sydney Australia
24. Corinne Bruce, Sydney Australia
25. Lea Brennan, Sydney Australia
26. Aaron Bryan, Sydney Australia
27. Louise Debono, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
28. Leanne Denford, Sydney Aust
29. Danny D, Sydney Australia
30. Nicky Hall, Sydney, Australia
31. Karen Thomas, London
32. Emma Harrow, London
33. Thu Lam, London
34. Danny James, London
35. Victoria James, London
36. Clare Matthews, London
37. Helen Smith, Surrey, UK
38. Sarah Flavin, Surrey, UK
39 Louise Tyrer, Weybridge, UK
40 Natalie Harsant, Hampshire, UK
41 Sally Morrison. Berkshire, UK
42.Lisa Crawshaw .Berkshire, UK
43. Joan Knight. Berkshire, UK
44. Gill Gale, Berkshire, UK
45. David Anderson, Hampshire, UK
46. Jackie Graddage, Berkshire UK
47. Paul Kendall, Berkshire UK
48. Barry Tattersall, Berkshire UK
49. Jason Soley, Berkshire, UK
50.Emma Cross,BErkshire, UK
51. Lee Goddard, Berkshire,UK
61. Dominic Smith, Berkshire, UK
62 Lee Newton, Berkshire, UK
63 Emma Price, Berkshire, UK
64. Bonnie Parker, Surrey, UK
65. Glen Ellis, Norwich, UK
66.Cynthia Pawley.UK
67. Diane Nauschutz. South Africa.
68. Logan Govender.South Africa
69. Charmaine Govender. South Africa
70. Steven Govender. South Africa
71. Gaily James, JHB South Africa
72. Deon James, JHB South Africa>
73. Charlene Swart, JHB, South Africa
74. Chrislaine Smit, JHB, South Africa
75. Carol Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
76. Alan Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
77. Russell Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
78. Anne Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
79. Cheryl Barclay, /gaborone, Botswana
80. Lea Roodt, Gaborone, Botswana
81 Frances Combs, Gaborone, Botswana
82. Barry Baxter, Gaborone, Botswana
83. Alan Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
84. Sue Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
85. Volker Willschrey, Dillingen, Germany
86. Batbayar D. Borjigin, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
87. Robert Word, Ansbach, Germany
88. Elizabeth L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
89. Stephen L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
90. Laura Ruiz, Pacoima, California
91. Lennette Casteneda, Camp Pendleton, California
92. Rick Ibarra,Camp Pendleton,CALIFORNIA, USA
93. Ryan Vieu, Camp Pendleton CA, Marine Corps
94. Tina Vieu, Big Rapids MI, USA
95. Melanie Stephens, Redford, MI USA
96. Melody Budensiek, Lake City,MN USA
97. Jody Schlussler, WI, USA
98. Geoffrey Hearn,Sydney,Australia
99. Maryjane Hearn,Sydney,Australia
100. Alicia Hearn,Sydney,Australia
101. Sarah Hearn,Sydney,Australia
102. Emma Hearn,Sydney,Australia
103. Timothy Hearn,Sydney,Australia
104. Desari Tregea, Sydney, Australia
105. Clairice Tregea, Sydney, Australia
106. Jonathon Tregea, Sydney, Australia
107. Bek Ansell, Adelaide, Australia
108. Aleksandra Pavoni, Warsaw, Poland
109. William Ernest , Bakersfield California USA
110. Mitchell Morris, Montreal, Qubec, Canada |
|
|
| 969 |
From: Paul Dennett <paul.dennett@n...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 6:15pm
Subject: RE:
|
| |
No
disrespect meant to the person who forwarded this but this kind of thing really
winds me up.
In the
first place this post is wildly off topic. (You could at least have transliterated it.)
In the
second place the judgment of Lady Butler-Sloss was not this week. It was nearly a year ago. Other than that I wont comment on the
content of the post.
In the
third place email petitions of this kind are highly inefficient in achieving
their stated objective. They are,
however, highly efficient in generating large amounts of unnecessary email
traffic.
This is a
chain letter, and as such it is anti-social and in contravention of the terms
of service of just about every reputable ISP anywhere.
Please dont
post chain letters here or anywhere else.
Paul
-----Original
Message-----
From: Mitchell Morris
[mailto:Narmical@Phantommx.com]
Sent: 18 April 2001 17:29
To: VonBrown23@aol.com; Victor
Henri Napoleon; support@gamesquad.net; Steve Chrisomalis; Steve Chrisomalis;
Solanna; shavian@yahoogroups.com; Rosa Colaianni; Peter P Toth; Eytan
Bernstein; Daphné Brunelle; Daniel P Morris; Dan Gambacorta; curtana@zombieworld.com;
Craig Lawson; Christopher Huang; Chris Lang; Chris Bonet; Bob Parnes; andrea
rodney
Subject: [shavian]
On February
12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three
on
March was taken from a shopping centre in Liverpool
by two
10 year old boys.
Jamie
Bulger walked away from his mother for only
a
second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him
out of
the mall with his friend Robert Thompson.
They
took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles,
along
the way stopping every now and again to torture
the
poor little boy who was crying constantly for his
mummy.
Finally they stopped at a railway track where
they
brutally kicked him and threw stones at him and
rubbed
paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his
anus.
They then left his beaten small body on the
tracks
so a train could run him over to hide the
mess
they had created. These two boys, even being boys
understood
what they did was wrong, hence trying to
make it
look like an accident. This week Lady Justice
Butler-Sloss
has awarded the two boys anonymity for
the
rest of their lives when they leave custody with
new
identities.
We
cannot let this happen. They will also leave early
this
year only serving just over half of their
sentence.
One paper even stated that Robert may go on
to
University. They are getting away with their crime.
They
need to pay, and we have to do something to make
them
pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's
life
violently away, and in return they get a new
life.
Please add your name and location to the list
and
forward
to friends and family. Please copy this email
instead
of forwarding so we do not get at the
beginning
of sentences. If you are the 200th person to
sign
please forward this email to ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
mailto:cust.ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
attentioning it to
Lady
Justice Butler-Sloss, Then start the list over
again
and sent to your friends and family. The
Love-Bug
virus took less that 72 hours to reach the
world.
I hope this one does too. We need to protect
our
family and friends from creatures like Robert and
Jon.
One day they may be living next to you and your
small
children
without your knowledge. If Robert and Jon
could
be so evil at 10, imagine what they could do as
adults?
1.
Angelia Hemmingway, Hamilton, New Zealand
2.
Jolene Rowe, Auckland, NZ
3. Evan
Graham, Auckland, NZ
4.
Laura Cole, Auckland, NZ
5.Grant
Cole, Auckland, NZ
6.
Leanne Whyte,Auckland,NZ
7.
Jackie Deacon Auckland NZ
8.
Aimee Walmsley,Auckland, New Zealand
9.
Natasha Barker, Auckland, New Zealand
10.
Debra Aldred, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
11.
Robin Williamson Perth Australia
12.
Amanda Gryg, Perth, Australia
13.
Charlii W, NSW, Australia
14.
Karen C., Sydney Australia
15.
Allan H, Sydney Australia
16.
Jessica H Sydney Australia
17.
Michelle M, Sydney Australia
18.
Chris M, Sydney Australia
19.
Lachlan M, Sydney Australia
20.
Debra Williams, Sydney Australia
21.
Elizabeth Williams, Sydney Australia
22.
Anthony Williams, Sydney Australia
23.Danielle
Dennis, Sydney Australia
24.
Corinne Bruce, Sydney Australia
25. Lea
Brennan, Sydney Australia
26.
Aaron Bryan, Sydney Australia
27.
Louise Debono, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
28.
Leanne Denford, Sydney Aust
29.
Danny D, Sydney Australia
30.
Nicky Hall, Sydney, Australia
31.
Karen Thomas, London
32.
Emma Harrow, London
33. Thu
Lam, London
34. Danny
James, London
35.
Victoria James, London
36.
Clare Matthews, London
37.
Helen Smith, Surrey, UK
38.
Sarah Flavin, Surrey, UK
39
Louise Tyrer, Weybridge, UK
40
Natalie Harsant, Hampshire, UK
41
Sally Morrison. Berkshire, UK
42.Lisa
Crawshaw .Berkshire, UK
43.
Joan Knight. Berkshire, UK
44.
Gill Gale, Berkshire, UK
45.
David Anderson, Hampshire, UK
46.
Jackie Graddage, Berkshire UK
47.
Paul Kendall, Berkshire UK
48.
Barry Tattersall, Berkshire UK
49.
Jason Soley, Berkshire, UK
50.Emma
Cross,BErkshire, UK
51. Lee
Goddard, Berkshire,UK
61.
Dominic Smith, Berkshire, UK
62 Lee
Newton, Berkshire, UK
63 Emma
Price, Berkshire, UK
64.
Bonnie Parker, Surrey, UK
65.
Glen Ellis, Norwich, UK
66.Cynthia
Pawley.UK
67.
Diane Nauschutz. South Africa.
68.
Logan Govender.South Africa
69.
Charmaine Govender. South Africa
70.
Steven Govender. South Africa
71.
Gaily James, JHB South Africa
72.
Deon James, JHB South Africa>
73.
Charlene Swart, JHB, South Africa
74.
Chrislaine Smit, JHB, South Africa
75.
Carol Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
76.
Alan Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
77.
Russell Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
78.
Anne Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
79.
Cheryl Barclay, /gaborone, Botswana
80. Lea
Roodt, Gaborone, Botswana
81
Frances Combs, Gaborone, Botswana
82.
Barry Baxter, Gaborone, Botswana
83.
Alan Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
84. Sue
Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
85.
Volker Willschrey, Dillingen, Germany
86.
Batbayar D. Borjigin, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
87.
Robert Word, Ansbach, Germany
88.
Elizabeth L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
89.
Stephen L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
90.
Laura Ruiz, Pacoima, California
91.
Lennette Casteneda, Camp Pendleton, California
92.
Rick Ibarra,Camp Pendleton,CALIFORNIA, USA
93.
Ryan Vieu, Camp Pendleton CA, Marine Corps
94.
Tina Vieu, Big Rapids MI, USA
95.
Melanie Stephens, Redford, MI USA
96.
Melody Budensiek, Lake City,MN USA
97.
Jody Schlussler, WI, USA
98.
Geoffrey Hearn,Sydney,Australia
99.
Maryjane Hearn,Sydney,Australia
100.
Alicia Hearn,Sydney,Australia
101.
Sarah Hearn,Sydney,Australia
102.
Emma Hearn,Sydney,Australia
103.
Timothy Hearn,Sydney,Australia
104.
Desari Tregea, Sydney, Australia
105.
Clairice Tregea, Sydney, Australia
106.
Jonathon Tregea, Sydney, Australia
107.
Bek Ansell, Adelaide, Australia
108.
Aleksandra Pavoni, Warsaw, Poland
109.
William Ernest , Bakersfield California USA
110.
Mitchell Morris, Montreal, Qubec, Canada
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
|
|
| 970 |
From: <RSRICHMOND@a...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:07pm
Subject: Re:
|
| |
This material does not belong on the Shavian list, unless you want to
transliterate it into Shaw alphabet as an addition to the corpus of
transliterated texts.
>>On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three on March was taken
from a shopping centre in Liverpool by two 10 year old boys....<<
Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee USA
|
|
| 971 |
From: Mitchell Morris <Narmical@P...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 8:27pm
Subject: Apoligies
|
| |
|
i would lik eto apogize to everyone for sending that email to the sahvian list. it was sent by accedent. sorry
|
|
|
| 972 |
From: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:33am
Subject: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
|
The page on the origin of the Shaw alphabet will
probably be of interest. The first full articulation of the project
appeared in the preface to a 1941 book http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/shaw-pref.html
Alternate Notations for
IPA phonemes
TWS=traditional writing
system, SA=Shaw Alphabet
Starting with the 13 simple or uncombined
vowels, the keywords are
note: E and O are sometimes
considered to be diphthongs ei/ou
| TWS |
eel |
ill |
ape |
edge |
at |
calm |
cup |
ago |
pot |
call |
oak |
hook |
hoop |
| SA |
Il |
il |
Ep |
ej |
At |
kym |
kup |
agO |
pot |
kYl |
Ok |
hUk |
hMp |
| Eng |
iil |
il |
eip |
ej |
aet |
kaam |
kap |
agou |
pot |
kool |
ouk |
huk |
huup |
| Uni |
El |
il |
Ap |
ej |
at |
kxm |
kup |
ugO |
pot |
kxl |
Ok |
hCk |
hUp |
| SS |
iel |
ill |
eip |
edj |
aet |
caam |
cupp |
ago |
pott |
col |
owk |
hwk |
huup |
Ten of the keyboard locations are easy to remember,
3
are not. Shavian arbitrarily assigns Y, y and M
to awe, ah, and ooze. I taught the ox would be spelled <
F tYt Ha yks >
Compare this to [Uni] < I txt
Du xks > and [Englik] < ai toot dhx oks
>
Unifon merges the awe and ah
phonemes and assigns x. Unifon could easily assign x and X
to discriminate the two sounds.
Unifon is much easier to keep straight than
keyboard Shavian. El, Ap, Ok, hCk, hUp can be deciphered without
a key when one is told that the lazy U [C] represents the u sound in pull
and the rest of the upper case letters are all long vowels.
On the next line, 13 combined vowels
or diphthongs are listed
All of these phonograms are difficult to remember.
The problem is compounded by assigning a unique keyboard letter for
compound or ligatured characters. aart
becomes Rt, or becomes P,
er becomes x,
AUr
becomes Qr.
The system would be easier to learn if this
were not done. The ligatures could be added later with a conversion
program for commercial printing.
| tradition |
rower |
jury |
other |
herder |
ear |
air |
art |
or |
tour |
tire |
our |
| shavian |
rOD |
JVrI |
aHD |
hXdD |
C |
x |
Rt |
P |
tUr |
tFr |
Qr |
|
shaw 2
|
rOa
|
JjUrI
|
aHa
|
hXda
|
ia-ir
|
ea-er
|
yrt
|
Yr
|
tUa
|
taia
|
AUa
|
| englik |
roua |
jyurii |
adhxr |
hxxdx
|
ia-ir |
ea-er |
aart |
or |
tur |
tair |
aur |
| unifon |
rOcr |
jyCrI |
uDcr |
hcrdcr |
Er |
Ar |
xrt |
Or |
tCr |
tIr |
qr |
| saxon |
rower |
jyury |
ather |
hurrder |
ir |
eir |
aart |
or |
tur |
tair |
aur |
All of these paired associates are difficult to
remember. hXdx
error airer herder hXdD
| TWS |
you |
ice |
out |
cow |
oil |
her |
hair |
caustic |
brush |
measure |
| shavian |
V |
Fs |
Qt |
kQ |
ql |
hX |
hx |
kYstik |
braS |
meZD |
|
shaw 2
|
jM
|
ais
|
AUt
|
kAU
|
oil
|
ha?
|
her?
|
"
|
"
|
mezar
|
| englik |
yuu |
ais |
aut |
kau |
oil |
hxxr |
her
|
kaustik |
brash |
mezxr |
| unifon |
Y |
Is |
qt |
kq |
Ql |
hcr |
her |
kxstik |
bruS |
meZcr |
| saxon |
yu |
ais |
aut |
cau |
oil |
her |
heir |
costic |
brussh |
meazher |
Does it make sense to learn keyboard locations
for ligatures?
Learning an extra set of paired associates
doubles the effort.
If Shavian were a code that one used every
day, it would be OK.
But a code used once a month should not be
this complicated.
By comparison, Unifon is a breeze:
ace is As, ease is Ez. ice is Is, Ot is oat, and ooze is Uz. [ Shavian
Es, Iz, Fs, Ot, Mz]. Unfortunately, Unifon has its unnecessary combinations
as well. Y is you, qt is out [AUt], Ql is oil, herder is hcdc or hcrdcr
[Shavian hXda/hXdD].
Shavian has no way to distinguish British non-rhortic
speech and American rhortic speech. hXda or hXdD is as close as we
can get. Unifon has no good way to distingish the first and second
syllable in herder.
more www.unifon.org/shaw-alfa.html
|
|
| 973 |
From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@d...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 9:01am
Subject: AW: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
|
I taught the ox would be spelled < F tYt Ha yks >
Er, I would spell ox as "oks", not "yks" (with the "short o" sound).
Shavian has no way to distinguish British non-rhortic speech and American rhortic speech. hXda or hXdD is as close as we can get.
Is it desirable to distinguish that at all? I thought one of the points was to be able to use the same spelling (roughly) for British and American speech, where non-rhotic dialects would still use the "ligatures" with r even though they do not pronounce the letter.
(However, the "same spelling" idea breaks down because General American apparently does not distinguish between "short o" and "ah" -- for example, "dog" has "short o" for me and "father" has "ah", but apparently, in many North American dialects, those vowels are merged. And then there's the Mary - merry - marry - Murray thing.)
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. |
|
|
| 974 |
From: kirk desimus <vrn111@h...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: Re: , SA, and shaw 2
|
| |
|
internashunal fonetik english: áéíóú=long vowelz (or AEIOU)
dígrafs: ah, az in on / au, in august / ch, in church / oo, in ooze /
ou, in out / oi, in oil / sh, in shore / th, in they / zh in azure
singulz: t =to e =the v =of n =and
==================================
steve:
veri interesting; thank U.
iz shavian e sAm az SA? wot iz shaw 2?
I tIp ghoti everi dA n its geting mor automatik. I am Uzing it t transkrIb pAperz 107 throo 112 from the Urantia Book (64 pAjez @ about 650 wordz per pAj) for mI websIt.
I agrE that Unifon iz Ezier t kEbord, but I think ghoti iz a bUtiful tIp fAs, n v kors, far Ezier n faster t rIt with a pen.
I aprEshiAt Ur kEping me posted on anithing n everithing pertAning t fonetik english.
with U in kOoperativ konsosiashun, kirk
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: [shavian] Shavian and IPA phonemes
The page on the origin of the Shaw alphabet will probably be of interest. The first full articulation of the project appeared in the preface to a 1941 book http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/shaw-pref.html Alternate Notations for IPA phonemes
TWS=traditional writing system, SA=Shaw Alphabet
Starting with the 13 simple or uncombined vowels, the keywords are
note: E and O are sometimes considered to be diphthongs ei/ou
| TWS |
eel |
ill |
ape |
edge |
at |
calm |
cup |
ago |
pot |
call |
oak |
hook |
hoop |
| SA |
Il |
il |
Ep |
ej |
At |
kym |
kup |
agO |
pot |
kYl |
Ok |
hUk |
hMp |
| Eng |
iil |
il |
eip |
ej |
aet |
kaam |
kap |
agou |
pot |
kool |
ouk |
huk |
huup |
| Uni |
El |
il |
Ap |
ej |
at |
kxm |
kup |
ugO |
pot |
kxl |
Ok |
hCk |
hUp |
| SS |
iel |
ill |
eip |
edj |
aet |
caam |
cupp |
ago |
pott |
col |
owk |
hwk |
huup | Ten of the keyboard locations are easy to remember, 3 are not. Shavian arbitrarily assigns Y, y and M to awe, ah, and ooze. I taught the ox would be spelled < F tYt Ha yks >
Compare this to [Uni] < I txt Du xks > and [Englik] < ai toot dhx oks > Unifon merges the awe and ah phonemes and assigns x. Unifon could easily assign x and X to discriminate the two sounds. Unifon is much easier to keep straight than keyboard Shavian. El, Ap, Ok, hCk, hUp can be deciphered without a key when one is told that the lazy U [C] represents the u sound in pull and the rest of the upper case letters are all long vowels. On the next line, 13 combined vowels or diphthongs are listed
All of these phonograms are difficult to remember. The problem is compounded by assigning a unique keyboard letter for compound or ligatured characters. aart becomes Rt, or becomes P, er becomes x, AUr becomes Qr.
The system would be easier to learn if this were not done. The ligatures could be added later with a conversion program for commercial printing.
| tradition |
rower |
jury |
other |
herder |
ear |
air |
art |
or |
tour |
tire |
our |
| shavian |
rOD |
JVrI |
aHD |
hXdD |
C |
x |
Rt |
P |
tUr |
tFr |
Qr |
|
shaw 2 |
rOa |
JjUrI |
aHa |
hXda |
ia-ir |
ea-er |
yrt |
Yr |
tUa |
taia |
AUa |
| englik |
roua |
jyurii |
adhxr |
hxxdx |
ia-ir |
ea-er |
aart |
or |
tur |
tair |
aur |
| unifon |
rOcr |
jyCrI |
uDcr |
hcrdcr |
Er |
Ar |
xrt |
Or |
tCr |
tIr |
qr |
| saxon |
rower |
jyury |
ather |
hurrder |
ir |
eir |
aart |
or |
tur |
tair |
aur | All of these paired associates are difficult to remember. hXdx
error airer herder hXdD
| TWS |
you |
ice |
out |
cow |
oil |
her |
hair |
caustic |
brush |
measure |
| shavian |
V |
Fs |
Qt |
kQ |
ql |
hX |
hx |
kYstik |
braS |
meZD |
|
shaw 2 |
jM |
ais |
AUt |
kAU |
oil |
ha? |
her? |
" |
" |
mezar |
| englik |
yuu |
ais |
aut |
kau |
oil |
hxxr |
her |
kaustik |
brash |
mezxr |
| unifon |
Y |
Is |
qt |
kq |
Ql |
hcr |
her |
kxstik |
bruS |
meZcr |
| saxon |
yu |
ais |
aut |
cau |
oil |
her |
heir |
costic |
brussh |
meazher |
Does it make sense to learn keyboard locations for ligatures?
Learning an extra set of paired associates doubles the effort.
If Shavian were a code that one used every day, it would be OK.
But a code used once a month should not be this complicated. By comparison, Unifon is a breeze: ace is As, ease is Ez. ice is Is, Ot is oat, and ooze is Uz. [ Shavian Es, Iz, Fs, Ot, Mz]. Unfortunately, Unifon has its unnecessary combinations as well. Y is you, qt is out [AUt], Ql is oil, herder is hcdc or hcrdcr [Shavian hXda/hXdD]. Shavian has no way to distinguish British non-rhortic speech and American rhortic speech. hXda or hXdD is as close as we can get. Unifon has no good way to distingish the first and second syllable in herder. more www.unifon.org/shaw-alfa.html
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
|
|
| 975 |
From: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 8:37am
Subject: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
Phillip,
OX was probably a poor choice for a key word.
what about calm as kym?
I was trying to contrast awe with ah.
I think the o represents the British o which is a short awe.
Regarding your second comment.
A system that would not distinguish British and GA could be
an advantage. I just found it to be curious.
Regards,
Steve
-- In shavian@y..., Philip Newton <philip.newton@d...> wrote:
> I taught the ox would be spelled < F tYt Ha yks >
>
> Er, I would spell ox as "oks", not "yks" (with the "short o" sound).
>
>
> Is it desirable to distinguish that at all? I thought one of the
points was
> to be able to use the same spelling (roughly) for British and
American
> speech,
|
|
| 976 |
From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@d...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 9:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
Steve Bett wrote:
> OX was probably a poor choice for a key word.
>
> what about calm as kym?
As far as I am concerned, yes. I pronounce calm as "kym" (roughly, "cahm").
> I was trying to contrast awe with ah.
>
> I think the o represents the British o which is a short awe.
Yes, pretty much.
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
|
|
| 977 |
From: Daniel G. Szczurek <twojbrat@w...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 3:32am
Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
Dear friends,
How do I get off this list?? I once unsubscribed, and now I'm getting
more e-mails about English phonetics. Aaargh!! Please remove me from this
list, OK?
Fr. Daniel Szczurek, PhD, ThD, MD
Carpathian Eastern Orthodox Christian Church in America
----------
>From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@d...>
>To: "'shavian@yahoogroups.com'" <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
>Date: Apr Wed, 2001, 01:13
>
> Steve Bett wrote:
>> OX was probably a poor choice for a key word.
>>
>> what about calm as kym?
>
> As far as I am concerned, yes. I pronounce calm as "kym" (roughly, "cahm").
>
>> I was trying to contrast awe with ah.
>>
>> I think the o represents the British o which is a short awe.
>
> Yes, pretty much.
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
> All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
> If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
|
| 978 |
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@b...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 6:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
I agree with you, we've heard this all before. It's a shame that no one
seems to want to post IN Shavian rather than ABOUT it.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel G. Szczurek <twojbrat@w...>
To: <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
> Dear friends,
> How do I get off this list?? I once unsubscribed, and now I'm getting
> more e-mails about English phonetics. Aaargh!! Please remove me from this
> list, OK?
> Fr. Daniel Szczurek, PhD, ThD, MD
> Carpathian Eastern Orthodox Christian Church in America
>
> ----------
> >From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@d...>
> >To: "'shavian@yahoogroups.com'" <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
> >Date: Apr Wed, 2001, 01:13
> >
>
> > Steve Bett wrote:
> >> OX was probably a poor choice for a key word.
> >>
> >> what about calm as kym?
> >
> > As far as I am concerned, yes. I pronounce calm as "kym" (roughly,
"cahm").
> >
> >> I was trying to contrast awe with ah.
> >>
> >> I think the o represents the British o which is a short awe.
> >
> > Yes, pretty much.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Philip
> > --
> > Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
> > All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
> > If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
|
| 979 |
From: cutler <cutler@i...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Re:
|
| |
|
111Richard Cutler, Johannesburg, South Africa
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: [shavian]
On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three
on March was taken from a shopping centre in Liverpool
by two 10 year old boys.
Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only
a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him
out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson.
They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles,
along the way stopping every now and again to torture
the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his
mummy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where
they brutally kicked him and threw stones at him and
rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his
anus. They then left his beaten small body on the
tracks so a train could run him over to hide the
mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys
understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to
make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice
Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for
the rest of their lives when they leave custody with
new identities.
We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early
this year only serving just over half of their
sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on
to University. They are getting away with their crime.
They need to pay, and we have to do something to make
them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's
life violently away, and in return they get a new
life. Please add your name and location to the list
and
forward to friends and family. Please copy this email
instead of forwarding so we do not get at the
beginning of sentences. If you are the 200th person to
sign please forward this email to ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
mailto:cust.ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk attentioning it to
Lady Justice Butler-Sloss, Then start the list over
again and sent to your friends and family. The
Love-Bug virus took less that 72 hours to reach the
world. I hope this one does too. We need to protect
our family and friends from creatures like Robert and
Jon. One day they may be living next to you and your
small
children without your knowledge. If Robert and Jon
could be so evil at 10, imagine what they could do as
adults?
1. Angelia Hemmingway, Hamilton, New Zealand
2. Jolene Rowe, Auckland, NZ
3. Evan Graham, Auckland, NZ
4. Laura Cole, Auckland, NZ
5.Grant Cole, Auckland, NZ
6. Leanne Whyte,Auckland,NZ
7. Jackie Deacon Auckland NZ
8. Aimee Walmsley,Auckland, New Zealand
9. Natasha Barker, Auckland, New Zealand
10. Debra Aldred, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
11. Robin Williamson Perth Australia
12. Amanda Gryg, Perth, Australia
13. Charlii W, NSW, Australia
14. Karen C., Sydney Australia
15. Allan H, Sydney Australia
16. Jessica H Sydney Australia
17. Michelle M, Sydney Australia
18. Chris M, Sydney Australia
19. Lachlan M, Sydney Australia
20. Debra Williams, Sydney Australia
21. Elizabeth Williams, Sydney Australia
22. Anthony Williams, Sydney Australia
23.Danielle Dennis, Sydney Australia
24. Corinne Bruce, Sydney Australia
25. Lea Brennan, Sydney Australia
26. Aaron Bryan, Sydney Australia
27. Louise Debono, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
28. Leanne Denford, Sydney Aust
29. Danny D, Sydney Australia
30. Nicky Hall, Sydney, Australia
31. Karen Thomas, London
32. Emma Harrow, London
33. Thu Lam, London
34. Danny James, London
35. Victoria James, London
36. Clare Matthews, London
37. Helen Smith, Surrey, UK
38. Sarah Flavin, Surrey, UK
39 Louise Tyrer, Weybridge, UK
40 Natalie Harsant, Hampshire, UK
41 Sally Morrison. Berkshire, UK
42.Lisa Crawshaw .Berkshire, UK
43. Joan Knight. Berkshire, UK
44. Gill Gale, Berkshire, UK
45. David Anderson, Hampshire, UK
46. Jackie Graddage, Berkshire UK
47. Paul Kendall, Berkshire UK
48. Barry Tattersall, Berkshire UK
49. Jason Soley, Berkshire, UK
50.Emma Cross,BErkshire, UK
51. Lee Goddard, Berkshire,UK
61. Dominic Smith, Berkshire, UK
62 Lee Newton, Berkshire, UK
63 Emma Price, Berkshire, UK
64. Bonnie Parker, Surrey, UK
65. Glen Ellis, Norwich, UK
66.Cynthia Pawley.UK
67. Diane Nauschutz. South Africa.
68. Logan Govender.South Africa
69. Charmaine Govender. South Africa
70. Steven Govender. South Africa
71. Gaily James, JHB South Africa
72. Deon James, JHB South Africa>
73. Charlene Swart, JHB, South Africa
74. Chrislaine Smit, JHB, South Africa
75. Carol Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
76. Alan Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
77. Russell Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
78. Anne Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
79. Cheryl Barclay, /gaborone, Botswana
80. Lea Roodt, Gaborone, Botswana
81 Frances Combs, Gaborone, Botswana
82. Barry Baxter, Gaborone, Botswana
83. Alan Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
84. Sue Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
85. Volker Willschrey, Dillingen, Germany
86. Batbayar D. Borjigin, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
87. Robert Word, Ansbach, Germany
88. Elizabeth L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
89. Stephen L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
90. Laura Ruiz, Pacoima, California
91. Lennette Casteneda, Camp Pendleton, California
92. Rick Ibarra,Camp Pendleton,CALIFORNIA, USA
93. Ryan Vieu, Camp Pendleton CA, Marine Corps
94. Tina Vieu, Big Rapids MI, USA
95. Melanie Stephens, Redford, MI USA
96. Melody Budensiek, Lake City,MN USA
97. Jody Schlussler, WI, USA
98. Geoffrey Hearn,Sydney,Australia
99. Maryjane Hearn,Sydney,Australia
100. Alicia Hearn,Sydney,Australia
101. Sarah Hearn,Sydney,Australia
102. Emma Hearn,Sydney,Australia
103. Timothy Hearn,Sydney,Australia
104. Desari Tregea, Sydney, Australia
105. Clairice Tregea, Sydney, Australia
106. Jonathon Tregea, Sydney, Australia
107. Bek Ansell, Adelaide, Australia
108. Aleksandra Pavoni, Warsaw, Poland
109. William Ernest , Bakersfield California USA
110. Mitchell Morris, Montreal, Qubec, Canada
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
|
|
| 980 |
From: cutler <cutler@i...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 0:33pm
Subject: Re:
|
| |
|
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: [shavian]
On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three
on March was taken from a shopping centre in Liverpool
by two 10 year old boys.
Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only
a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him
out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson.
They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles,
along the way stopping every now and again to torture
the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his
mummy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where
they brutally kicked him and threw stones at him and
rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his
anus. They then left his beaten small body on the
tracks so a train could run him over to hide the
mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys
understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to
make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice
Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for
the rest of their lives when they leave custody with
new identities.
We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early
this year only serving just over half of their
sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on
to University. They are getting away with their crime.
They need to pay, and we have to do something to make
them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's
life violently away, and in return they get a new
life. Please add your name and location to the list
and
forward to friends and family. Please copy this email
instead of forwarding so we do not get at the
beginning of sentences. If you are the 200th person to
sign please forward this email to ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
mailto:cust.ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk attentioning it to
Lady Justice Butler-Sloss, Then start the list over
again and sent to your friends and family. The
Love-Bug virus took less that 72 hours to reach the
world. I hope this one does too. We need to protect
our family and friends from creatures like Robert and
Jon. One day they may be living next to you and your
small
children without your knowledge. If Robert and Jon
could be so evil at 10, imagine what they could do as
adults?
1. Angelia Hemmingway, Hamilton, New Zealand
2. Jolene Rowe, Auckland, NZ
3. Evan Graham, Auckland, NZ
4. Laura Cole, Auckland, NZ
5.Grant Cole, Auckland, NZ
6. Leanne Whyte,Auckland,NZ
7. Jackie Deacon Auckland NZ
8. Aimee Walmsley,Auckland, New Zealand
9. Natasha Barker, Auckland, New Zealand
10. Debra Aldred, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
11. Robin Williamson Perth Australia
12. Amanda Gryg, Perth, Australia
13. Charlii W, NSW, Australia
14. Karen C., Sydney Australia
15. Allan H, Sydney Australia
16. Jessica H Sydney Australia
17. Michelle M, Sydney Australia
18. Chris M, Sydney Australia
19. Lachlan M, Sydney Australia
20. Debra Williams, Sydney Australia
21. Elizabeth Williams, Sydney Australia
22. Anthony Williams, Sydney Australia
23.Danielle Dennis, Sydney Australia
24. Corinne Bruce, Sydney Australia
25. Lea Brennan, Sydney Australia
26. Aaron Bryan, Sydney Australia
27. Louise Debono, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
28. Leanne Denford, Sydney Aust
29. Danny D, Sydney Australia
30. Nicky Hall, Sydney, Australia
31. Karen Thomas, London
32. Emma Harrow, London
33. Thu Lam, London
34. Danny James, London
35. Victoria James, London
36. Clare Matthews, London
37. Helen Smith, Surrey, UK
38. Sarah Flavin, Surrey, UK
39 Louise Tyrer, Weybridge, UK
40 Natalie Harsant, Hampshire, UK
41 Sally Morrison. Berkshire, UK
42.Lisa Crawshaw .Berkshire, UK
43. Joan Knight. Berkshire, UK
44. Gill Gale, Berkshire, UK
45. David Anderson, Hampshire, UK
46. Jackie Graddage, Berkshire UK
47. Paul Kendall, Berkshire UK
48. Barry Tattersall, Berkshire UK
49. Jason Soley, Berkshire, UK
50.Emma Cross,BErkshire, UK
51. Lee Goddard, Berkshire,UK
61. Dominic Smith, Berkshire, UK
62 Lee Newton, Berkshire, UK
63 Emma Price, Berkshire, UK
64. Bonnie Parker, Surrey, UK
65. Glen Ellis, Norwich, UK
66.Cynthia Pawley.UK
67. Diane Nauschutz. South Africa.
68. Logan Govender.South Africa
69. Charmaine Govender. South Africa
70. Steven Govender. South Africa
71. Gaily James, JHB South Africa
72. Deon James, JHB South Africa>
73. Charlene Swart, JHB, South Africa
74. Chrislaine Smit, JHB, South Africa
75. Carol Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
76. Alan Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
77. Russell Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
78. Anne Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
79. Cheryl Barclay, /gaborone, Botswana
80. Lea Roodt, Gaborone, Botswana
81 Frances Combs, Gaborone, Botswana
82. Barry Baxter, Gaborone, Botswana
83. Alan Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
84. Sue Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
85. Volker Willschrey, Dillingen, Germany
86. Batbayar D. Borjigin, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
87. Robert Word, Ansbach, Germany
88. Elizabeth L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
89. Stephen L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
90. Laura Ruiz, Pacoima, California
91. Lennette Casteneda, Camp Pendleton, California
92. Rick Ibarra,Camp Pendleton,CALIFORNIA, USA
93. Ryan Vieu, Camp Pendleton CA, Marine Corps
94. Tina Vieu, Big Rapids MI, USA
95. Melanie Stephens, Redford, MI USA
96. Melody Budensiek, Lake City,MN USA
97. Jody Schlussler, WI, USA
98. Geoffrey Hearn,Sydney,Australia
99. Maryjane Hearn,Sydney,Australia
100. Alicia Hearn,Sydney,Australia
101. Sarah Hearn,Sydney,Australia
102. Emma Hearn,Sydney,Australia
103. Timothy Hearn,Sydney,Australia
104. Desari Tregea, Sydney, Australia
105. Clairice Tregea, Sydney, Australia
106. Jonathon Tregea, Sydney, Australia
107. Bek Ansell, Adelaide, Australia
108. Aleksandra Pavoni, Warsaw, Poland
109. William Ernest , Bakersfield California USA
110. Mitchell Morris, Montreal, Qubec, Canada 111 Richard Cutler, Johannesburg, South Africa.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
|
|
| 981 |
From: cutler <cutler@i...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 4:11pm
Subject: Do the British, in the name of Justice, pamper the savages who torture tots?
|
| |
| Attachment: (application/msword) Boy Murderers.doc [not stored] |
|
| 982 |
From: Paul Dennett <paul.dennett@n...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 5:16pm
Subject: Re:
|
| |
|
hAv wI not sIn His sumwX bifP?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: [shavian]
On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three
on March was taken from a shopping centre in Liverpool
by two 10 year old boys.
Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only
a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him
out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson.
They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles,
along the way stopping every now and again to torture
the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his
mummy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where
they brutally kicked him and threw stones at him and
rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his
anus. They then left his beaten small body on the
tracks so a train could run him over to hide the
mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys
understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to
make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice
Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for
the rest of their lives when they leave custody with
new identities.
We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early
this year only serving just over half of their
sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on
to University. They are getting away with their crime.
They need to pay, and we have to do something to make
them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's
life violently away, and in return they get a new
life. Please add your name and location to the list
and
forward to friends and family. Please copy this email
instead of forwarding so we do not get at the
beginning of sentences. If you are the 200th person to
sign please forward this email to ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk
mailto:cust.ser.cs@gtnet.gov.uk attentioning it to
Lady Justice Butler-Sloss, Then start the list over
again and sent to your friends and family. The
Love-Bug virus took less that 72 hours to reach the
world. I hope this one does too. We need to protect
our family and friends from creatures like Robert and
Jon. One day they may be living next to you and your
small
children without your knowledge. If Robert and Jon
could be so evil at 10, imagine what they could do as
adults?
1. Angelia Hemmingway, Hamilton, New Zealand
2. Jolene Rowe, Auckland, NZ
3. Evan Graham, Auckland, NZ
4. Laura Cole, Auckland, NZ
5.Grant Cole, Auckland, NZ
6. Leanne Whyte,Auckland,NZ
7. Jackie Deacon Auckland NZ
8. Aimee Walmsley,Auckland, New Zealand
9. Natasha Barker, Auckland, New Zealand
10. Debra Aldred, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
11. Robin Williamson Perth Australia
12. Amanda Gryg, Perth, Australia
13. Charlii W, NSW, Australia
14. Karen C., Sydney Australia
15. Allan H, Sydney Australia
16. Jessica H Sydney Australia
17. Michelle M, Sydney Australia
18. Chris M, Sydney Australia
19. Lachlan M, Sydney Australia
20. Debra Williams, Sydney Australia
21. Elizabeth Williams, Sydney Australia
22. Anthony Williams, Sydney Australia
23.Danielle Dennis, Sydney Australia
24. Corinne Bruce, Sydney Australia
25. Lea Brennan, Sydney Australia
26. Aaron Bryan, Sydney Australia
27. Louise Debono, SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
28. Leanne Denford, Sydney Aust
29. Danny D, Sydney Australia
30. Nicky Hall, Sydney, Australia
31. Karen Thomas, London
32. Emma Harrow, London
33. Thu Lam, London
34. Danny James, London
35. Victoria James, London
36. Clare Matthews, London
37. Helen Smith, Surrey, UK
38. Sarah Flavin, Surrey, UK
39 Louise Tyrer, Weybridge, UK
40 Natalie Harsant, Hampshire, UK
41 Sally Morrison. Berkshire, UK
42.Lisa Crawshaw .Berkshire, UK
43. Joan Knight. Berkshire, UK
44. Gill Gale, Berkshire, UK
45. David Anderson, Hampshire, UK
46. Jackie Graddage, Berkshire UK
47. Paul Kendall, Berkshire UK
48. Barry Tattersall, Berkshire UK
49. Jason Soley, Berkshire, UK
50.Emma Cross,BErkshire, UK
51. Lee Goddard, Berkshire,UK
61. Dominic Smith, Berkshire, UK
62 Lee Newton, Berkshire, UK
63 Emma Price, Berkshire, UK
64. Bonnie Parker, Surrey, UK
65. Glen Ellis, Norwich, UK
66.Cynthia Pawley.UK
67. Diane Nauschutz. South Africa.
68. Logan Govender.South Africa
69. Charmaine Govender. South Africa
70. Steven Govender. South Africa
71. Gaily James, JHB South Africa
72. Deon James, JHB South Africa>
73. Charlene Swart, JHB, South Africa
74. Chrislaine Smit, JHB, South Africa
75. Carol Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
76. Alan Nowlan, Gauteng, South Africa
77. Russell Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
78. Anne Taylor, Johannesburg, South Africa
79. Cheryl Barclay, /gaborone, Botswana
80. Lea Roodt, Gaborone, Botswana
81 Frances Combs, Gaborone, Botswana
82. Barry Baxter, Gaborone, Botswana
83. Alan Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
84. Sue Liddle, Gaborone Botswana
85. Volker Willschrey, Dillingen, Germany
86. Batbayar D. Borjigin, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
87. Robert Word, Ansbach, Germany
88. Elizabeth L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
89. Stephen L. Nelms, Atlanta, Georgia
90. Laura Ruiz, Pacoima, California
91. Lennette Casteneda, Camp Pendleton, California
92. Rick Ibarra,Camp Pendleton,CALIFORNIA, USA
93. Ryan Vieu, Camp Pendleton CA, Marine Corps
94. Tina Vieu, Big Rapids MI, USA
95. Melanie Stephens, Redford, MI USA
96. Melody Budensiek, Lake City,MN USA
97. Jody Schlussler, WI, USA
98. Geoffrey Hearn,Sydney,Australia
99. Maryjane Hearn,Sydney,Australia
100. Alicia Hearn,Sydney,Australia
101. Sarah Hearn,Sydney,Australia
102. Emma Hearn,Sydney,Australia
103. Timothy Hearn,Sydney,Australia
104. Desari Tregea, Sydney, Australia
105. Clairice Tregea, Sydney, Australia
106. Jonathon Tregea, Sydney, Australia
107. Bek Ansell, Adelaide, Australia
108. Aleksandra Pavoni, Warsaw, Poland
109. William Ernest , Bakersfield California USA
110. Mitchell Morris, Montreal, Qubec, Canada 111 Richard Cutler, Johannesburg, South Africa.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 18/04/01
|
|
|
| 983 |
From: Eoghan <eoghan@s...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
>
> From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@b...>
>Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
>
>I agree with you, we've heard this all before. It's a shame that no one
>seems to want to post IN Shavian rather than ABOUT it.
AkSMlI, nyt yl v us hAv hxd His bIfP. F fP wun waz glAd t sI HAt pOst. nyt
evrIwan on H list hAz ben rEdiN n rFtiN SEvWn fP a loN tFm. F SUd hop HAt
'nMbIz' R alQd t pRtisipEt n HAt His list nyt bI dyminEted bF H ysifFd
pOsts v H Old-tFmxz. ;)
F'm Sx HAt menI v H HiNz HAt hAv ben hASt Qt in H pAst amuN H fxst pIpel t
subskrFb R nM typiks fP HOz hM'v diskuvxd SEvWn mP rIsentlI.
|
|
| 984 |
From: Paul Dennett <paul.dennett@n...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Do the British, in the name of Justice, pamper the savages who torture tots?
|
| |
|
Just az F ekspektid: H sEm rAbal-rQziN drival dizFnd t wip up hEtrid n histCW. wI /britiS hAv a sistam v Justis prisFslI sO Hat pIpal wiH H kFnd v linc-mob mentalitI eksemplifFd in His pOst kan tFk nO pRt in H JMdiSal prOses.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 4:11 PM
Subject: [shavian] Do the British, in the name of Justice, pamper the savages who torture tots?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 18/04/01
|
|
|
| 985 |
From: Daniel G. Szczurek <twojbrat@w...>
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2001 8:47pm
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
|
| |
Please, please, please take me off the Shavian mailing list! I don't want to
receive these postings. I've heard it all before. Stop sending me these
notes, especially the ones about British criminal justice.
Daniel Szczurek
twojbrat@w...
----------
>From: Eoghan <eoghan@s...>
>To: shavian@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [shavian] Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
>Date: Apr Fri, 2001, 09:38
>
>
>>
>> From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@b...>
>>Subject: Re: Re: Shavian and IPA phonemes
>>
>>I agree with you, we've heard this all before. It's a shame that no one
>>seems to want to post IN Shavian rather than ABOUT it.
>
> AkSMlI, nyt yl v us hAv hxd His bIfP. F fP wun waz glAd t sI HAt pOst. nyt
> evrIwan on H list hAz ben rEdiN n rFtiN SEvWn fP a loN tFm. F SUd hop HAt
> 'nMbIz' R alQd t pRtisipEt n HAt His list nyt bI dyminEted bF H ysifFd
> pOsts v H Old-tFmxz. ;)
> F'm Sx HAt menI v H HiNz HAt hAv ben hASt Qt in H pAst amuN H fxst pIpel t
> subskrFb R nM typiks fP HOz hM'v diskuvxd SEvWn mP rIsentlI.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
|
| 986 |
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
Date: Sun Apr 29, 2001 6:17am
Subject: New to this. Please help
|
| |
Hi,
I am new to this. I am sure that this is a newbie question. I have
been getting along pretty well with it, but I am having a very
difficult time trying to decide what to do with the "er" ending on
words. I also have a difficult time figuring out when to use
the "Up" character, and when to use "Ado". Any suggestions would
help.
Thanks,
Scott
|
|
| 987 |
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@b...>
Date: Sun Apr 29, 2001 11:53pm
Subject: Re: New to this. Please help
|
| |
How would you describe your accent? Are you from the US?
Basically, 'er' and 'up' are *stressed*, whereas 'array' and 'ado' are
*unstressed*.
There has been a fair amount of debate on this subject alone in the past. If
you are still curious, you might want to browse back through the archive of
postings (two and a half years' worth) - visit
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
To: <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: [shavian] New to this. Please help
> Hi,
>
> I am new to this. I am sure that this is a newbie question. I have
> been getting along pretty well with it, but I am having a very
> difficult time trying to decide what to do with the "er" ending on
> words. I also have a difficult time figuring out when to use
> the "Up" character, and when to use "Ado". Any suggestions would
> help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
|
| 988 |
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2001 2:00am
Subject: Re: New to this. Please help
|
| |
I am from the US. I am originally from Massachusetts, near Boston.
I have been living in Illinois for the last nine or so years now,
however.
--- In shavian@y..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@b...> wrote:
> How would you describe your accent? Are you from the US?
>
> Basically, 'er' and 'up' are *stressed*, whereas 'array' and 'ado'
are
> *unstressed*.
>
> There has been a fair amount of debate on this subject alone in the
past. If
> you are still curious, you might want to browse back through the
archive of
> postings (two and a half years' worth) - visit
> www.groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian.
>
> Hugh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
> To: <shavian@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: [shavian] New to this. Please help
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am new to this. I am sure that this is a newbie question. I
have
> > been getting along pretty well with it, but I am having a very
> > difficult time trying to decide what to do with the "er" ending on
> > words. I also have a difficult time figuring out when to use
> > the "Up" character, and when to use "Ado". Any suggestions would
> > help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
|
|
| 989 |
From: Eoghan <eoghan@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2001 5:08pm
Subject: re: unsubscribing from Shavian list
|
| |
If you don't want to be on a mailing list, you'll need to unsubscribe
yourself instead of asking someone else to do it for you. (They can't
unless they are the group moderator, and then it's not their responsibility
anyway)
To unsubscribe from this particular list, send a blank email with the
subject line "unsubscribe" to shavian-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Make sure that you send from the email account that is receiving the list
postings.
Hope this helps,
-Eoghan
>Please, please, please take me off the Shavian mailing list! I don't want to
>receive these postings. I've heard it all before. Stop sending me these
>notes, especially the ones about British criminal justice.
>Daniel Szczurek
>twojbrat@w...
|
|
| 990 |
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
Date: Wed May 2, 2001 3:12am
Subject: Re: New to this. Please help
|
| |
Anyway, can someone please be kind enough to give me the Cliff notes
version of what is appropriate in this situation. I have been
writing a lot for practice, but am now afraid that I have been doing
it incorrectly. I can tell you that I have spent more time with a
dictionary in the last couple of months than at any other time in my
life!
Basically, what I am confused as to what to use as for words with an
er ending (Father, mother, etc...). The way I pronounce it indicates
that I should use the "Urge" character, but the dictionary seems to
disagree with me on this point.
Thanks all.
--- In shavian@y..., sdkilbourn@y... wrote:
> I am from the US. I am originally from Massachusetts, near
Boston.
> I have been living in Illinois for the last nine or so years now,
> however.
>
> --- In shavian@y..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@b...> wrote:
> > How would you describe your accent? Are you from the US?
> >
> > Basically, 'er' and 'up' are *stressed*, whereas 'array'
and 'ado'
> are
> > *unstressed*.
> >
> > There has been a fair amount of debate on this subject alone in
the
> past. If
> > you are still curious, you might want to browse back through the
> archive of
> > postings (two and a half years' worth) - visit
> > www.groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian.
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
> > To: <shavian@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:17 AM
> > Subject: [shavian] New to this. Please help
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am new to this. I am sure that this is a newbie question. I
> have
> > > been getting along pretty well with it, but I am having a very
> > > difficult time trying to decide what to do with the "er" ending
on
> > > words. I also have a difficult time figuring out when to use
> > > the "Up" character, and when to use "Ado". Any suggestions
would
> > > help.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
|
|
| 991 |
From: Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...>
Date: Wed May 2, 2001 0:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: New to this. Please help~
|
| |
On Wednesday, May 2, 2001, at 04:12 , sdkilbourn@ync.net wrote:
Anyway, can someone please be kind enough to give me the Cliff notes
version of what is appropriate in this situation. I have been
writing a lot for practice, but am now afraid that I have been doing
it incorrectly. I can tell you that I have spent more time with a
dictionary in the last couple of months than at any other time in my
life!
Basically, what I am confused as to what to use as for words with an
er ending (Father, mother, etc...). The way I pronounce it indicates
that I should use the "Urge" character, but the dictionary seems to
disagree with me on this point.
Thanks all.
Hi,
The problem with a dictionary is that it usually attempts to come
up with a standard pronunciation for words. And of course we all
pronounce some things like the dictionary says and others in a different
way. And remember it depends on what dictionary you use. I cannot
really give you advice on what you should do, but I will tell you what I
do.
I am creating texts in Shavian (see http://www.mithrandir.com and
click on Software and then Shavian if you are interested in them) by
creating a master dictionary of words. For that dictionary I attempt to
use my pronunciation as I "hear" it (except for specific rules like the
spelling of "a" that I have adopted). This definitely is different from
the spellings found in Androcles and the Lion (which I have). I then
present the text with my spelling. At the present time all the people
seem to be doing this with their texts. I am not sure whether we will
ever come up with a standard English spelling of words. If we do decide
that a standard spelling of words is the way to go, then I can always
convert my texts over to that standard spelling since they are all
electronic and it is very easy to do. Until that time I keep all my
texts in my American pronunciation (even the British ones).
Just enjoy this. Read other's texts and see how they differ from
your usage and learn that people pronounce things differently. You will
get used to things and recognize them for what they are. Of course you
may pronounce something internally differently from what is written, but
that is something you are likely to do no matter what.
--
Scott Harrison
|
| Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] |
|
| 992 |
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 3:00am
Subject: Re: New to this. Please help~
|
| |
Hi,
Thanks for the information. I tried to take a look at the documents
that you pointed me to, but all I saw was a bunch of blocks. Any
ideas on what I can do to take a look? I have the Lionspaw font
installed on my computer.
Thanks.
--- In shavian@y..., Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2001, at 04:12 , sdkilbourn@y... wrote:
>
> Anyway, can someone please be kind enough to give me the Cliff notes
> version of what is appropriate in this situation. I have been
> writing a lot for practice, but am now afraid that I have been doing
> it incorrectly. I can tell you that I have spent more time with a
> dictionary in the last couple of months than at any other time in my
> life!
>
> Basically, what I am confused as to what to use as for words with an
> er ending (Father, mother, etc...). The way I pronounce it
indicates
> that I should use the "Urge" character, but the dictionary seems to
> disagree with me on this point.
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> The problem with a dictionary is that it usually attempts to
come
> up with a standard pronunciation for words. And of course we all
> pronounce some things like the dictionary says and others in a
different
> way. And remember it depends on what dictionary you use. I cannot
> really give you advice on what you should do, but I will tell you
what I
> do.
>
> I am creating texts in Shavian (see http://www.mithrandir.com
and
> click on Software and then Shavian if you are interested in them)
by
> creating a master dictionary of words. For that dictionary I
attempt to
> use my pronunciation as I "hear" it (except for specific rules like
the
> spelling of "a" that I have adopted). This definitely is different
from
> the spellings found in Androcles and the Lion (which I have). I
then
> present the text with my spelling. At the present time all the
people
> seem to be doing this with their texts. I am not sure whether we
will
> ever come up with a standard English spelling of words. If we do
decide
> that a standard spelling of words is the way to go, then I can
always
> convert my texts over to that standard spelling since they are all
> electronic and it is very easy to do. Until that time I keep all
my
> texts in my American pronunciation (even the British ones).
>
> Just enjoy this. Read other's texts and see how they differ
from
> your usage and learn that people pronounce things differently. You
will
> get used to things and recognize them for what they are. Of course
you
> may pronounce something internally differently from what is
written, but
> that is something you are likely to do no matter what.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison
|
|
| 993 |
From: Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 7:39am
Subject: Re: Re: New to this. Please help~
|
| |
On Thursday, May 3, 2001, at 04:00 , sdkilbourn@y... wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the information. I tried to take a look at the documents
> that you pointed me to, but all I saw was a bunch of blocks. Any
> ideas on what I can do to take a look? I have the Lionspaw font
> installed on my computer.
>
> Thanks.
>
Hi,
The Shavian documents on my web pages contain Unicode characters.
At the bottom of the page is a description about Unicode and how to use
it. Assuming you are using a Windows machine, the easiest thing to
probably do is to download the font for Windows on the bottom of the
page and install it. And then make sure your browser uses that font for
Unicode web pages. And then look at the UTF-8 web page version of each
document.
--
Scott Harrison
|
|
| 994 |
From: <sdkilbourn@y...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 3:14am
Subject: Re: New to this. Please help~
|
| |
I guess that what I am stuck on is getting the font to work with my
browser. I have a Windows 98 system, and I installed the font. I
looked for a place to associate that particular font with UTF-8, but
was unable to find it.
--- In shavian@y..., Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, May 3, 2001, at 04:00 , sdkilbourn@y... wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the information. I tried to take a look at the
documents
> > that you pointed me to, but all I saw was a bunch of blocks. Any
> > ideas on what I can do to take a look? I have the Lionspaw font
> > installed on my computer.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> The Shavian documents on my web pages contain Unicode
characters.
> At the bottom of the page is a description about Unicode and how to
use
> it. Assuming you are using a Windows machine, the easiest thing to
> probably do is to download the font for Windows on the bottom of
the
> page and install it. And then make sure your browser uses that
font for
> Unicode web pages. And then look at the UTF-8 web page version of
each
> document.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison
|
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|
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