|
|
|
| 1115 |
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shavian Standard Spelling
|
| |
Do we object when whe hear someone with talk a certain accent? Do we ask of
them to talk in a different way? I don't. As long as we know what they are
talking about, there are no problems. That's why shavian forces us to write
down an R, even if it's not pronounced in certain accents.
Just consider Shavian a way of recording speech on paper.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: warriorprincess@g... <warriorprincess@g...>
Aan: shavian@yahoogroups.com <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: vrijdag 29 juni 2001 17:11
Onderwerp: [shavian] Re: Shavian Standard Spelling
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't shavian an outcry against the
silly standard spellings in the modern english language? Besides the
difference in pronunciation of Rhotic and non Rhotic accents, someone
in Brooklyn, NY might not agree with the way someone from
Massachusets "spells" something in shavian, anymore than someone from
Brittain would agree with someone from Ireland, not to mention the
slight variations on dialect within an area. Shavian is based on
Standard english, but night and knight are "spelled" the same because
they are pronounced the same. IMHO, making a standard spelling system
would go against what Shaw was trying to do, besides, who's accent
would you use? London or Liverpool? Dublin or Dallas? If you don't
like it, stick to standard English spelling.
Love and soapboxes
Star
All Hail George Bernard Shaw
--- In shavian@y..., "cutler" <cutler@i...> wrote:
>
> PRONUNCIATION versus GRAMMAR
> Paige Gabhart writes: "I believe the idea that Shavian spells
everything one way is clearly wrong and not necessary for good
communication."
>
> In my country where there are eleven official languages, standard
PRONUNCIATION is essential for communication. English is the lingua
franca of the courts, parliament, schools and universities most of
the population are trying to deal with a language that is not their
own. English taught by non-English teachers leads to distortion of
the language, which is becoming unrecognisable in some instances.
Even newscasters can be unintelligible. We hear that "a bed flew
into a Boeing", "The President unvealed a plague" and other
misleading information, the meaning of which must be guessed at.
Bad grammar is far less misleading.
>
> As I aim at using Shavian for teaching by writing it under the
word, it is imperative that a standard pronunciation be agreed on for
the purpose. Since all traditional alphabet printing adheres to
traditional English spelling as used in the Oxford English
Dictionary, it is the pronunciation guide of the OED that I intend to
use. Swerving from this can only lead to confusion, as there are so
many accents and variations around. Robert Burns might like all
spelling to be like his own:
>
> O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
>
> To see oursels as others see us!
>
> It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
>
> And foolish notion.
>
> If one is using the Shavian symbols as a game played as a hobby,
it is interesting and amusing to "hear" the different accents of
Australia, the Deep South of America and 'Oxford' English, but these
variations have to be for the pleasure of advanced students who have
mastered a standard pronunciation. L'Académie Française was
formed by
the Cardinal de Richelieu in 1635 to allay the chaos caused by
erratic spelling and pronunciation that made French almost
unintelligible to the French. Standardisation of spelling et cetera
saved the country millions. The whole purpose of Shavian is to
obviate ambiguity. The problem of ambiguity would fall away if each
sound were to have a symbol of its own. The sound of the symbol would
be inflexible - it would be foolish to re-create a possibility of
ambiguity in spelling.
>
> I believe that Shavian should standardise spelling to suit the
pronunciation of the English language most easily understood by those
who do not have English as their first language and have difficulty
in grasping the meaning of it.
>
> Remember that people never use words they do not know how to
pronounce and so vocabulary dwindles and common expletives are used
instead of meaningful words. Whole film scripts are made up of oaths
and obscenities to characterise people unable better to express
themselves.
>
> May I have your comments and transliteration to the Shavian
alphabet of the two sentences:
>
> A bird flew into a Boeing, & The President unveiled a plaque.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
| 1116 |
From: Paige Gabhart <pgabhart@c...>
Date: Sat Jun 30, 2001 1:50am
Subject: Re: An old fan of Shavian with a question
|
| |
At 11:09 AM 6/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Star writes:
>
> >>Anyway, my question/observation is this: Shavian is missing one phenome
>[phoneme] to make it american as well as english--the breathless "wh" versus
>the breathed "w". This might have already been rehashed, but I'm willing to
>hash it again ;) <<
Star, if you take a look at the Read Alphabet (also known as Quikscript),
which is Kingsley Read's revision of Shavian, you will find that he
realized his error and added a symbol for "wh." There is a Read Alphabet
Group on Yahoo, and I am its moderator. We have not been very active
lately, but if you go to the site, you will find a Read Alphabet font you
can download. The font is good but can still stand some improvement, which
I hope we can accomplish soon.
The Read Alphabet is much more cursive than Shavian. I have used it for 25
years, and I find it faster to write since it does not require the penlifts
that Shavian does. The font "Jerome" has been mapped to correspond to
Shavian letters so something you write in Jerome can be easily changed to
Shavian. The only exception to that is that Jerome also has the capacity
to use the Read "half-letters," which Shavian has no equivalent for. I
find they add much to the distinctiveness of the word-shapes in Read and
are one of its most innovative features. The problem is that if you use
them in e-mails, people who want to transliterate your message into Shavian
will not be able to read everything you have written.
>Indeed, this problem has been discussed before. The w/wh distinction is an
>archaic feature in American English - I have it, but at 62 I'm archaic - my
>parents were from Oregon - probably inherited from Scots English. Its use in
>southern England is distinctly "non-U".
Bob, I cannot agree with you. The distinction is not archaic in the United
States in southern Indiana where I live. I believe many people in this
region make the distinction. Two nights ago I just happened to be reading
the section on pronunciation in the preface to my Merriam-Webster
dictionary which was published in 1988 (ninth edition, I believe) It
declares that the distinction is not made in southern England, but that
most Americans make it. I doubt that the phoneme has become archaic in the
U.S. in the the last 13 years.
It seems to me if one makes the distinction, it seems important; if one
does not, one wonders why anybody cares. Perhaps, I am too sensitive,
since I make the distinction, but I have read posts on this site that
struck me as if they were looking down their collective noses at those of
us making the distinction. The impression I received from several of them
was "I don't use this sound, therefore, it must be antiquated." I remember
someone pointing out, somewhat snootily I thought, that the Scots still
make this sound. The thought seems to be if people in London do not make
this sound anymore, those who do must be country bumpkins. We all know
that language changes, but the fact that people in southern England and
some parts of the United States have stopped using a particular sound is
not necessarily an indication they are the vanguard of the
future. Perhaps, the usage merely represents a brook which has diverged
from the main flow of the English language and, over time, it will diminish
and disappear as a stream entering a desert. At this point, no one can say
whether "wh" will disappear from most people's speech, but it is still
alive and well here.
>In the Shaw Alphabet, I just write the two component letters.
My Merriam-Webster preface points out that "wh" is the unvoiced version of
"w." It is not two separate sounds anymore than "sh" or "th"
are. Besides, the lack of the "wh" strikes me as inelegant. It is not
that big a deal to add the Read Alphabet symbol for "wh," which hardly
varies from the "w" anyway, and it enables the alphabet to more accurately
portray the actual pronunciation of all English speakers around the world.
> - A more serious problem, discussed at great
>length on this list in the past, is the fact that British English has one
>more vowel than I do, and I'd have to look a word up in a British-English
>dictionary (if I had one) to tell me to write "daunce" and "lawf" rather than
>"dance" and "laff". The rest of the English speaking world, for whom British
>Received Pronunciation is normative, doesn't understand the problem we North
>Americans have here, where we respect George V's pronunciation quite as much
>as we did George III's tea.
Since I do not believe in attempting to standardize spelling in Shavian or
the Read Alphabet (that is partly what got us into this mess to begin
with), I do not see what the problem is. The British say "lawf." We
don't. But we still understand what they mean, and they understand us when
we speak. Surely, we can understand the same word when it is written by a
Londoner.
Paige Gabhart
Jeffersonville, IN
|
|
| 1117 |
From: <teraiten@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: any automatic QS convertors around?
|
| |
[This is a copy of the mail I sent to the quikscript group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet ]
Greetings,
I was messing around with Rosetta lately (the program can be
downloaded from the Shavian Yahoo-group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian ) and I was wondering if there
would be a dictionary for Quikscript (Senior Quikscript). If not,
would some people be interested in creating such a dictionary? I
would also like to help. But keep in mind that I am Dutch myself and
try to pronounce everything the posh British way. If such a
dictionary is going to be created, we'd have to stick to one way of
pronouncing. The phonetic dictionary included with Rosetta is
American. With this I mean that can't is pronounced like "kaent", and
not 'kahn't".
Then again the phonetic dictionary isn't optimised for the shortened
letter-forms of QS.
(If you don't know what I mean by the files, download rosetta and
open the files with a text editor such as notepad or wordpad)
If such a dictionary is going to be created, how exactly? Perhaps we
can edit the c0.6 file. I don't understand how a '.index'-file works,
but a '.vocabulary'-file should be editable.
Editing the c0.6 files seems to be the easiest thing to do, for it
already includes all phonetic transcriptions of the words. We just
have to look for situations where the shortened forms are required,
and replace them. When that's done, some editing of the
'phones_6.txt'-should make everything work.
Please tell me what you think.
Ewout
|
|
| 1118 |
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2001 8:49pm
Subject: Re: any automatic QS convertors around?
|
| |
I should have explained myself a little more. I already got misunderstood in
the Quikscript group.
I'm looking for a program that can convert texts from Traditional Orthograpy
to Quikscript. Rosetta is such a program. It contains a reference file that
looks up the word in the traditional orthography, and then returns this word
in a phonetic orthograpy, which could be Shavian or Quikscript. The
reference file isn't optimised for Quikscript yet, so I'm asking around here
if there is one around, and if not, if some people would like to create
one/have tips on creating one.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: teraiten@y... <teraiten@y...>
Aan: shavian@yahoogroups.com <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: woensdag 11 juli 2001 0:03
Onderwerp: [shavian] any automatic QS convertors around?
>[This is a copy of the mail I sent to the quikscript group at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet ]
>
>Greetings,
>
>I was messing around with Rosetta lately (the program can be
>downloaded from the Shavian Yahoo-group at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian ) and I was wondering if there
>
>[snip]
>
>Please tell me what you think.
>
>
>Ewout
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
|
|
| 1119 |
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: Re: [Read_Alphabet] any automatic QS convertors around?
|
| |
|
[message has also been posted in the Shavian Yahoo-group]
I
have contacted Mr. Callaway (the creator of Rosetta) and he was
thinking of doing the same. I've asked about a few technicalities and
await his reply (which may be entering my mailbox as this message is
being sent).
When Rosetta encounters a word that it does not yet know, an option is given to enter the proper transcription for this word.
Since
the CMU dictionary is already very extensive, using this as a basis, it
will not be too hard to create a 'quite complete' converter. It is
perhaps possible to create a list on-line where people can post new
words and transcriptions, and of course corrections. There will be only
one rule: the words will have to sound with the same accent. For
example, a new word that is pronounced in Posh British wouldn't fit in
an American-sounding text.
I'm not certain about
adding the names of persons to it, for the list can get quite big then.
It would even be possible to add foreign names, as long as they can be
transscribed in QS...
My name, Ewout, is for example possible in QS: /EvQt (the sound of the Dutch 'w' is quite the same as the English 'v')
I'll post the complete plan soon... (within two weeks or something, I'm going to England soon for a week...)
By the way, I also think QS would be helpful to the Dutch in order
to get rid of the terrible 'Dutch Accent'. Many Dutch pronounce the
English v as f, there's not aspirated 'wh' and a 'd' at the end of a
word becomes a 't', many other letters go unvoiced too such as the
'th'. That's normal in Dutch, but not in English and sounds terrible.
When I found out about Shavian and QS, I have also been spending more
attention to voicing. And it will of course make people more certain as
how to pronounce a word. No more Dutch people saying JIOgrefI [geography] :)
Ewout
Ewout:
Sorry
I misunderstood. I am not familiar with Rosetta. What you
have described would certainly be useful to provide texts for people to
read to gain familiarity with the Read Alphabet. However, to make
this practical, it sounds like it would be quite time consuming to
enter a sufficient quantity of words into this transcriber to make it
work very effectively.
Your mention of optimization for
Quikscript leads me to wonder if you are referring to the use of
half-letters, which are possible with the font Jerome. Of course,
since they have no correspondence with Shavian, they are mapped to keys
Shavian does not use. It might be possible to have a junior and a
senior version of the transcriber. The user could pick which
version they want their roman text transcribed into. Of course,
this increases the work in preparing the transcriber even more.
I
do not have any experience with this sort of thing so I cannot offer
any assistance with this project. Anybody here who could?
Paige
At 09:48 PM 7/11/2001 +0200, you wrote:
Nononono,
that's not what I meant. I should have explained myself a little more.
I'm looking for a program that can convert texts from Traditional
Orthograpy to Quikscript. Rosetta is such a program. It contains a
reference file that looks up the word in the traditional orthography,
and then returns this word in a phonetic orthograpy, which could be
Shavian or Quikscript. The reference file isn't optimised for
Quikscript yet, so I'm asking around here if there is one around, and
if not, if some people would like to create one/have tips on creating
one.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Paige Gabhart <pgabhart@corecomm.net>
Aan: Read_Alphabet@yahoogroups.com <Read_Alphabet@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: woensdag 11 juli 2001 5:43
Onderwerp: Re: [Read_Alphabet] any automatic QS convertors around?
Dear Ewout:
[snip]
So
when you talk about a dictionary for the Read alphabet, I believe you
are really suggesting we should produce a document that attempts to
provide "correct spellings," rather than letting people spell as they
speak. This result of this, in my opinion, would be to fall back
into the same trap the printers led us into three centuries ago, and
from which we are now trying to escape.
Paige
At 07:01 PM 7/10/01 +0000, you wrote:
Greetings,
I was messing around with Rosetta lately (the program can be
downloaded from the Shavian Yahoo-group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian ) and I was wondering if there
would be a dictionary for Quikscript (Senior Quikscript). If not,
would some people be interested in creating such a dictionary? I
would also like to help. But keep in mind that I am Dutch myself and
try to pronounce everything the posh British way. If such a
dictionary is going to be created, we'd have to stick to one way of
pronouncing. The phonetic dictionary included with Rosetta is
American. With this I mean that can't is pronounced like "kaent", and
not 'kahn't".
Then again the phonetic dictionary isn't optimised for the shortened
letter-forms of QS.
(If you don't know what I mean by the files, download rosetta and
open the files with a text editor such as notepad or wordpad)
If such a dictionary is going to be created, how exactly? Perhaps we
can edit the c0.6 file. I don't understand how a '.index'-file works,
but a '.vocabulary'-file should be editable.
Editing the c0.6 files seems to be the easiest thing to do, for it
already includes all phonetic transcriptions of the words. We just
have to look for situations where the shortened forms are required,
and replace them. When that's done, some editing of the
'phones_6.txt'-should make everything work.
Please tell me what you think.
Ewout
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Read_Alphabet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Read_Alphabet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Read_Alphabet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Read_Alphabet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
|
|
|
| 1120 |
From: Belo Croph <bcroph@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 11:34pm
Subject: Subj
|
| |
|
| 1121 |
From: Eoghan <eoghan@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 11:45pm
Subject: Re: Subj
|
| |
>Free porn model site. Largest preview in the world..
His grMp iz in SEvWn
plIz send yl pPn spAm wiT H prypx kXaktDz....
;-)
|
|
| 1122 |
From: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Subj
|
| |
|
| 1123 |
From: Nuno <nuno2miguel@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:13am
Subject: frI pPn
|
| |
/frI pPn mydl sFt. /lRJest prIvV in H
wxld..http://www.all-lolitas.com/cgi-bin/out.cgi?cporn111
---
;-)
Just learned about Shavian about an hour ago. Found this
group. Joined, and decided that I would help out the guy who
sent the porn mail. It's my first "trasposition" Hope I did ok ;-)
/sinsClI,
/nMnM
|
|
| 1124 |
From: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:45am
Subject: Re: frI pPn
|
| |
|
| 1125 |
From: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 3:06am
Subject: Re: frI pPn and a question about quickscript
|
| |
I just remembered: Only use a namer dot whn you are indicating a name, not just any capital letter.
/frI pPn mydl sFt. /lRJest prIvV in H wxld
As in:
helO, mI nEm iz /stR. hQ R V tMdE, mistx /smiT
As for my question on quickscript, does anyone have any suggestions on
writing practice for both shavian and quickscript? I am trying to find
a fairly fluent way to write that is still legible... hate to get "yew"
mixed up with long-e or "awe" and "or"
All hail GBS!
/stR
_________________________________________________________
Get Your FREE Lifelong E-mail From http://www.godmail.com
|
|
| 1126 |
From: Nuno <nuno2miguel@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 6:53pm
Subject: Re: frI pPn and a question about quickscript
|
| |
O-kE, TEnks fP jP help. mF nEm iz /nMnM. (hQ wuz HAt fP
/SEvWn) enIwE, F wuz wundxiN if Tx iz sum plEs tM cAt in
/SEvWn? Just E TYt.
/nMnM
|
|
| 1127 |
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@b...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 7:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: frI pPn and a question about quickscript
|
| |
|
hF /nMnM. jes, HX iz sumwX V kAn cAt (in /SEvIan) wiHQt hAviN evrIwun els rId wot V rFt - H /SEvIan fPamz, HAt F'v OnlI Just stRtad.
if V lFk Hem tel evrIwun els wot V TiNk Az pIpal sIm a bit riluktant t trF Hem! :)
/hV
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:53 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: frI pPn and a question about quickscript
> O-kE, TEnks fP jP help. mF nEm iz /nMnM. (hQ wuz HAt fP
> /SEvWn) enIwE, F wuz wundxiN if Tx iz sum plEs tM cAt in
> /SEvWn? Just E TYt.
> /nMnM
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Small business owners...
> Tell us what you think!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/mx3olB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> |
|
|
| 1128 |
From: Nuno <nuno2miguel@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2001 10:30pm
Subject: I will Survive
|
| |
So ok, i'm new to this, and i'm having fun with the transposing
thing. So i decided to transpose "I will survive" just for fun and
practice. If i've made any mistakes (of course i have) please
correct them. I would like to konw what i'm doing wrong. Thanks
Nuno
--------------
F wil sxvFv
/glOrIa /gEnx
(/dInO /fekDis & /fredI /pXen)
At fxst F wuz afrEd F wuz petrafFd
kept TInkin F kUd nevx liv witQt V bF mF sFd;
but Hen F spent sO menI nFts
TInkin hQ V did mF ryN
n F grM stryN
n F lxnd hQ tM get alyN
n sO jP bAk frum Qtx spEs
F Just wykt in tM fFnd V hC wiT HAt sAd lUk upyn jP fEs
F SMd hAv cEnJd HAt stMpid lyk
F SMd hAv mEd V lIv jP kI
if Fduv nOn fP Just wun seknd Vd bI bAk tM byHx mI
gO yn nQ, gO. wyk Qt H dP
Just txn DQnd nQ
kaz jP nyt welkum enImP
wxnt V H wun hM trFd tM hxt mI wiT gMdbF
did V TInk Fd krumbl
did V TInk Fd lE dQn n dF?
O nO, nyt F, F wil sxvFv
O Az lyN Az F nO hQ tM luv F nO Fl stE ulFv;
Fv gyt yl mF lFf tM liv,
Fv gyt yl mF luv tM giv n Fl sxvFv,
F wil sxvFv, hE hE.
it tUk yl mF strenT nyt tM fyl ApDt
kept trFin hRd tM mend T pIses f mF brOkn hRt,
n F spent O sO menI nFts
Just fIlin sYrI fP mFself. F uzd tM krF
byt nQ F hOld mF hed up hF
n V sI mI sumbudI nM
Fm nyt Tat cEnd up litl pxsun stil in luv wiT V,
n sO V felt lFk drypin in
n Just ekspekt mI tM bI frI,
nQ Fm sEvin yl mF luvin fP sumwun hMz luvin mI
gO yn nQ, gO. wyk Qt H dP
Just txn DQnd nQ
kaz jP nyt welkum enImP
wxnt V H wun hM trFd tM hxt mI wiT gMdbF
did V TInk Fd krumbl
did V TInk Fd lE dQn n dF?
O nO, nyt F, F wil sxvFv
O Az lyN Az F nO hQ tM luv F nO Fl stE ulFv;
Fv gyt yl mF lFf tM liv,
Fv gyt yl mF luv tM giv n Fl sxvFv,
F wil sxvFv, hE hE.
------------
|
|
| 1129 |
From: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:49am
Subject: Re: An old fan of Shavian with a question
|
| |
Star,
There are several websites with good charts.
Here is one that is on the yahoogroups server.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/grapheme-phoneme-key-
charts/shavian-ipa-keybd16.gif
Perhaps this will help.
It relates the shavian symbols to IPA and the ascii keyboard
positions.
Regards,
Steve
--- In shavian@y..., warriorprincess@g... wrote:
> Hello all, from a Shavian across the pond!
>
> I learned about shavian from my senior english book in high school
> and I have since been fascinated by writing systems. (linguistics
is
> my hobby) I an amazed that so many people recognize the usefulness
of
> a system that works by phonetics rather than traditional spellings.
> After all, who cares if you spell grey or gray, colour or color,
> turck or lorrie (okay maybe not that last one). Anyway, my
> question/observation is this: Shavian is missing one phenome to
make
> it american as well as english--the breathless "wh" versus the
> breathed "w". This might have already been rehashed, but I'm
willing
> to hash it again ;)
>
> Love and happy writing,
> Star
>
> ps. is there anyone who has a key to practicing handwritten Shavian?
>
> All hail George Bernard Shaw!
|
|
| 1130 |
From: richardcutler <cutler@i...>
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 5:15pm
Subject: Fw: help halt this tragedy
|
| |
|
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: help halt this tragedy
Subject: Zimbabwe: Stop this madness!
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:34:15
How to...
To sign this petition, click on "Forward", add the addresses of all the
people you know in the "To...", "Cc..." or "Bcc..." box, go to the bottom of
the petition and type in your name and then "Send". We must try to get a
million copies of this petition to The President of the USA at the
White House.
Please would every 100th person forward this to the White House.
address:
president@whitehouse.gov
PETITION:
Zimbabwe, "another jewel of Africa" is dying. Strangled by the corrupt
forces, short sighted self serving policies of the ego-maniacal dictator
Robert Mugabe. Freedom, human rights and sensibility has been extinguished.
Zimbabwe is becoming an unstabilising factor in the regional politics. Only
drastic measures by international democracies will be able to save Zimbabwe
from damnation and prevent long term starvation and civil war in the region
as experienced in the Congo.
We have to ensure responsible governance for the people of Zimbabwe. The
International community pleads for support to save Zimbabwe:
1. The resignation of Robert G. Mugabe
2. Free and Fair Parliamentary and Municipal Elections
3. Non interference or escalation of regional conflicts. Removal of
Zimbabwean Troops from the Congo
4. Restoration of Constitutional Law in Zimbabwe
5. Obedience by the government of the day to the laws of the country.
We the undersigned support this petition:
Signed:
1. Peter Punungwe, Harare, Zimbabwe
2. Roger Adams, Harare
3. Paul Cumming, Bulawayo, Zimbabwe
4. Neverson Mbonga, Harare
5. George Jansen, Harare, Zimbabwe
6. Norman Kalulu
7. Cleaver Choto, Harare, Zimbabwe
8. Dilap Patel, New York NY
9. Nona Patel, Houston TX
10. James Norvelle, Cape Town, South Africa
11. Antonio Salves, Durban
12. Chipo Murapa, Harare
13. Abmerson Culverwell, London
14. Noor Singha, London, UK
15. Jemison Moyo, Bulawayo
16. Bhakta Patel, Gweru, Zimbabwe
17. Lee Watt, Harare, Zimbabwe
18. Bob Watt, Harare, Zimbabwe
19. Mary Brophy, Harare, Zimbabwe
20. Julia Lujite, Harare, Zimbabwe
21. Marlee Howie, Harare, Zimbabwe
22. Mike Howie, Harare, Zimbabwe
23. Beauty Jeche, Harare, Zimbabwe
24. Corralee Greeff, Rotherham, UK (Zimbabwean)
25. Leon Greeff, Rotherham, UK (Zimbabwean)
26. Zelda Greeff, Harare, Zimbabwe
27. Gareth Lee-Bell, London, England
28. Ewen Cameron, London, England (Zimbabwean)
29. Jessica Kennedy, London, UK (Zimbabwean)
30. Susanne Johansson, GÉteborg, Sweden
31. Alan Graham, Harare, Zimbabwe
32. Les Rule, Sandton, Gauteng, South Africa
33. Ann Thorne, Harare, Zimbabwe
34. Stuart Thorne,Barberton, South Africa
35. Ann Thorne,Barberton, South Africa
36. Keith Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe
37. Pat Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe
38. Anne Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe
39. Mark Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe
40. Lea Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe
41. Kevin Butler, Harare, Zimbabwe
42. Corinne Butler, Harare, Zimbabwe
43. Belinda Egan, Harare, Zimbabwe
44. Elliose Burton, Harare, Zimbabwe
45. Ian Burton, Harae, Zimbabwe
46. John Egan, Harare, Zimbabwe
47. Mags Varley, Vic Falls, Zimbabwe
48. Lesley Cripps, Wiltshire, England
49. Sharon Van Rensburg, Johannesburg, RSA
50. Gill Lotter, London, UK
51. Neil Lotter, London, UK (Zimbabwean)
52. Julie-Anne Lotter, London, England (Zimbabwean) 53.
53. Melody Duff, London, UK (Zimbabwean)
54. Janine Pringle, London, UK (Zimbabwean!)
55. Trevor Man, London, UK
56. Chris Edgar, Tengwe, Zimbabwe
57. Shelley Burgis, Armidale, Australia
58. Jason Barr, Exiled in Australia (Zimbabwean)
59. Vicky Barr, Zimbabwean in Greece
60. Mandi Burke, Zimbabwean in Israel
61. Alex Fraser-Kirk, Sydney Australia
62. Jann Thompson, Congleton, UK
63. Lara Warburton, Manchester, UK
64. Laurel Milwid, Manchester, UK
65. Matthew Milwid, Manchester, UK
66. George McGhie, Zimbabwe
67. Sally Ann McGhie, Zimbabwe
68. Elizabeth Louw, Zimbabwe
69. Keith J.Lindsay, Midrand, South Africa
70. Kathryn J. Lindsay, Midrand, South Africa
71. Stephen Roskilly , Gloucester UK. ex Zimbabwe
72. Lucinda Roskilly , Gloucester UK. ex Zimbabwe
73. John Lewis, Bristol, UK, (Zimbabwean)
74. Benjamin Murray, UK, (Zimbabwean)
75. Keith Murray, SA, (Zimbabwean)
75. Sarah Thompson, Harare, Zimbabwe
76. Naomi Chudy, Harare, Zimbabwe
77 John Cubitt Norwich Norfolk U.K.
78 Paul Garnett, Perth, Western Australia
79. Audrey Innes, London, UK
80. Bronwen Bawden, UK
81. Graeme Bawden, UK
82. Patty Dube, S.A
83. Denson Dube, S.A
84. Nigel Hulett, Zimbabwe
85. Gail Milford, New Zealand
86. Shane Milford, New Zealand
87. Janet Milford, Zimbabwe
88. Fred Milford, Zimbabwe
89. Charles Milford, Zimbabwe
90. Yolander Visser, Zimbabwe
91. Anton Visser, Zimbabwe
92. Serge Finck, Zimbabwe
93. Daisy Mpofu, Zimbabwe
94. Gerry P. Richardson, Zimbabwe
95. Alan Bradnick, Zimbabwe
96. Sandra A. de Klerk, Zimbabwe
97. Eria Bradnick, Zimbabwe
98. Joseph B. de Klerk, Zimbabwe
99. Bafana Mbedzi, Zimbabwe
100. Sidihiwe Masabu, Zimbabwe
1. Mable Mbedzi, Zimbabwe
2. Leo Siziba, Zimbabwe
3. Eniah Khumalo, Zimbabwe
4. Tony Furman, Zimbabwe
5. Sue Cowham, Zimbabwe
6. Lesley Thompson, Zimbabwe
7. Cheryl Hannon, South Africa
8. Trish Gooch, Zimbabwe.
9. Dom Couve, Zimbabwe
10. Chris Malujlo, South Africa
11. Mark Norman, Toowoomba, Australia
12. Clive Law-Brown, Cambridge, New Zealand
13. A.F Strauss Hamilton, New Zealand
14. S.F.Fourie, Bellville, South-Africa.
15. P K Acutt, Durban, South Africa
16. M. McGreal, Durban, South Africa
17 brian draycott Durban South Africa
18 Sybilla Draycott Durban South Africa
19 G Appleford Hillcrest South Africa
20. M.Clark Mooi River South Africa
21. Alannah Valentine, Hilton, S. Africa
22. Leigh Lombard, New York, USA (Zimbabwean)
23. Anton Crone, New York, USA
24 Ros Crone, Pietermaritzburg. SA
25 Ant Williams, Jhb, South Africa (Zimbabwean)
26 A. Hurrell, Harare, Zimbabwe
27. A. Lamb, Rusape, Zimbabwe
28. B. Parsons, Harare, Zimbabwe
29. D. Parsons, Harare, Zimbabwe,
30. D. Carter, Cape Town.
31. T. Carter, Cape Town.
32. D. Torre, Gaborone, Botswana
33. C. Torre, Gaborone, Botswana
34. C.Donald, Harare, Zimbabwe
35. Nick Worrall (journalist, 4 times deported from Zim)
35. Yvette Worrall Zimbabwean, Cape Town
36. Tony Lavine, Jhb
37. Nina Venjakob, Johannesburg.
38. Quentin Kyle, Johannesburg
Please would every 100th p
person forward this to the Whitehouse address as
well:
president@whitehouse.gov
Notice: All mail messages and attachments passing through this server are
scanned with the Network Associates suite of Anti Virus utilities.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
|
|
|
| 1131 |
From: Robert S. Reeser <reeser@c...>
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 6:38pm
Subject: Am I Missing Something?
|
| |
In the two weeks I have belonged to this group, I have received only two
messages and posts I thought I have made have been completely ignored.
It occurs to me there are three possibilities:
1. I am unwelcome
2. Yahoo has messed up
3. It is not a very active group.
Are there other possibilities?
Walt Reeser
|
|
| 1132 |
From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 7:22pm
Subject: Re: Am I Missing Something?
|
| |
On 21 Aug 01, at 13:38, Robert S. Reeser wrote:
> In the two weeks I have belonged to this group, I have received only two
> messages and posts I thought I have made have been completely ignored.
>
> It occurs to me there are three possibilities:
>
> 1. I am unwelcome
I doubt that
> 2. Yahoo has messed up
This could explain the "I made posts but didn't see them"
> 3. It is not a very active group.
This is certainly true. Well, at least sometimes; the group has tended
to get bursts of activity and also periods of silence.
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@g...>
|
|
| 1133 |
From: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 7:57am
Subject: Re: Fw: help halt this tragedy
|
| |
As with the last fellow who sent something like this to the list, I
will say now, I do not like Fwd's, especially if they are sent to the
Yahoo! groups lists that I am a member of. I joined these groups to
gain knowledge or to discuss a particular topic. Please keep your
forwards to your own address book, and leave them off of the lists.
I do not mean to sound rude, but I have written a similar email to any
other groups where people insist on forwarding messages to me.
Thank you,
Star Raven
_________________________________________________________
Get Your FREE Lifelong E-mail From http://www.godmail.com
|
|
| 1134 |
From: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 8:19am
Subject: Help! I'm an American!
|
| |
I have recently been comparing my notations in Shaw as opposed to my own pronunciation. I have come across a question:
What is the difference between up and ado, and what is the difference
between ah and awe. I am wondering if this is a difference of accent (I
am rhotic American) versus the actual pronunciation.
These were the only changes between Read and second shaw systems that
threw me for a loop. Apparently the person who designed it did not
understand the difference between Array and err as those who USE the
alphabet.
Okay, now I'm getting full of myself...
Star
_________________________________________________________
Get Your FREE Lifelong E-mail From http://www.godmail.com
|
|
| 1135 |
From: Robert S. Reeser <reeser@c...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Fonts?
|
| |
What fonts are preferred for posting in Shavian? (I like Philip Driscoll's
ShawSans2; is that o.k.?)
|
|
| 1136 |
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Help! I'm an American!
|
| |
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Star Raven <warriorprincess@g...>
Aan: shavian@yahoogroups.com <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: dinsdag 21 augustus 2001 23:23
Onderwerp: [shavian] Help! I'm an American!
>I have recently been comparing my notations in Shaw as opposed to my own
pronunciation. I have come across a question:
>
>What is the difference between up and ado, and what is the difference
between ah and awe. I am wondering if this is a difference of accent (I am
rhotic American) versus the actual pronunciation.
The only difference betwee up and ado is stress. Up is stressed, ado isn't.
In the 2nd version of Shavian (also known as quickscript), up and ado are
combined and no distinction is made.
In my native language (Dutch) there are also up and ado sounds, with stress
as the only difference.
Ah and Awe both happen in Dutch too. Ah is the sound in fAther. If you can
say 'can't' like the British, then you've mastered the 'ah'. Ah is also used
in 'are' (take a good look at what components the ligatures are made of).
Awe is different. I pronounce it like the o-sound in the boy-diphthong,
except longer in duration.
If you know a little bit about phonetics, go to
http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/ and take a look at the
Shavian-quickscript comparison chart. It has the phonetic signs next to the
shavian characters.
>
>These were the only changes between Read and second shaw systems that threw
me for a loop. Apparently the person who designed it did not understand the
difference between Array and err as those who USE the alphabet.
If you go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet (The Quickscript
yahoo-group) you can download the complete quickscript manual in PDF format
(20 pages, about 2 MB). It will precizely explain how the Quickscript/2nd
shaw alphabet works, including special shortened characters etc.
Quickscript doesn't use ligatures since all characters are attached to each
other when possible, so writing array and err differently should work.
I don't know of any website that explains the usage of the quickscript
alphabet. I'm thinking of creating one myself.
>
>Okay, now I'm getting full of myself...
>
>Star
|
|
| 1137 |
From: Robert S. Reeser <reeser@c...>
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2001 6:00pm
Subject: Shaw Script
|
| |
Does anyone have a copy of Andy Callaway's ShawScript TrueType font? It is
no longer avaiable at his site, and he tells me he is having difficulty
finding it on his system.
If anyone would be willing to e-mail me a copy, I'd greatly appreciate it.
|
|
| 1138 |
From: Robert McBroom <info@o...>
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2001 2:14am
Subject: The recent " Second Shavian" file posting
|
| |
|
My thanks and congratulations to whomever posted the detailed
explanation of the Read Alphabet, a.k.a."Second Shaw."
While the writer acknowledges the help he/she's had, I couldn't
find in the text who actually wrote it . But thanks nonetheless.
I feel the bold elimination of u
and D are definitive improvements that
should be adopted by "First Shaw" as well. "TrO Qt h dedwUd!" And
"white-wheat" is a long-overdue addition. I even vote
for the "eks" glyphs!
The character labels show a lot of thought and - a sure Shavian
prerequisite - humor.
But one query to our mystery writer: why make a Readian
computer font in the first place?
If the real beauty of Read is it's calligraphic qualities, and
the speed with which it can be hand-written ("fewer pen
lifts!") then what is the advantage of font-ticizing it? For
fifty bucks you can by a program to turn your personal hand-writing
into a font. But no one would write "Gone With the Wind" in
it for submission to a publisher. And typing in Read/Read 2 doesn't
appear to be one jot more efficient of strokes than typing in
Shavian. Maybe less with the ligatures.
Architectural drafting has become the proper province of the
computer - but never, I think, will oil painting.
Of course, in the final analysis, one might argue that Second
Shaw should be computerized simply because, as that old riddle about
why a dog licks his privates goes: "bikaz
HI kAn!"
One final request of our anonymous scholar: reading your
file was like reading the Rosetta Stone, because I cannot use the
Jerome font. I - alas - am a Mac person, and I would love it if
some kind and savy soul out there would adapt Jerome for my humble
instrument. I feel a second class citizen of SEvWnna."
ps: And while they're at it: Mac
version of Cursive Shaw etc!
--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk
"wun simpol
iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun
atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd
/SY
|
|
|
| 1139 |
From: Robert McBroom <info@o...>
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:24am
Subject: Re: Help! I'm an American!
|
| |
|
Your posting reminds me that - in my few months as a member - I
have noticed that we all have our particular "blind
spots"
I too am rhotic American, and never had an issue with ah and
awe. For me, when the doctor sticks the tongue depressor in
your mouth he says "sE a!".
And when the crow makes noise he "kYz".
My own personal blind spot is
x w and D which certainly sound
identical to my ears. Can you - /jAkI t /jAkF
- help me with this distinction?
I have recently been comparing my
notations in Shaw as opposed to my own pronunciation. I have come
across a question:
What is the difference between up and ado, and what is the difference
between ah and awe. I am wondering if this is a difference of accent
(I am rhotic American) versus the actual pronunciation.
These were the only changes between Read and second shaw systems that
threw me for a loop. Apparently the person who designed it did not
understand the difference between Array and err as those who USE the
alphabet.
Okay, now I'm getting full of myself...
Star
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk
"wun simpol
iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun
atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd
/SY
|
|
|
| 1140 |
From: Robert McBroom <info@o...>
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:32am
Subject: Re: Am I Missing Something?
|
| |
|
Relax.
I have been first an observer and then a member since
February.
Communication does indeed wax and wane.
These days, most of the traffic seems to involve we Americans
making silly sophomoric statements which provoke response and
critiques (friendly, non the less) from Europeans and
Antipodians.
I put the recent lack of action to the fact that, as I
understand it, most of Europe shuts down for vacation the entire of
August, while we colonial drudges sit chained to our desk-tops.
Hang around - you'll find it rewarding.
In the two weeks I have belonged to
this group, I have received only two
messages and posts I thought I have made have been completely
ignored.
It occurs to me there are three possibilities:
1. I am unwelcome
2. Yahoo has messed up
3. It is not a very active group.
Are there other possibilities?
Walt Reeser
Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
 
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk
"wun simpol
iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun
atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd
/SY
|
|
|
| 1141 |
From: em pee <mitch@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 6, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: (beginner) How to transcribe -LY: [i]f versus [ea]t
|
| |
Greetings,
The prologue of Androcles and the Lion, in the first sentence and many
others, transcribes words like "faintly" with an -ly suffix using [l]oll [i]f instead of [l]oll [ea]t as I would expect.
I think most speakers would pronounce -ly with a long e sound as in eat,
not [i]f which I would also pronounce as vowel in "bit". Yet the [i]f
character is used. Does [i]f have two sounds?
Thanks,
-mitch
|
|
| 1142 |
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@b...>
Date: Thu Sep 6, 2001 9:01pm
Subject: Re: (beginner) How to transcribe -LY: [i]f versus [ea]t
|
| |
Mitch
This has been discussed at length in the past. My recommendation to you is
to go to the mailing list archive (www.yahoogroups.com/group/shavian) and
read back through the postings. Look for titles such as "eat versus if".
Hugh B
www.mixsynth.btinternet.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "em pee" <mitch@e...>
To: <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:07 PM
Subject: [shavian] (beginner) How to transcribe -LY: [i]f versus [ea]t
> Greetings,
>
> The prologue of Androcles and the Lion, in the first sentence and many
> others, transcribes words like "faintly" with an -ly suffix using [l]oll
[i]f instead of [l]oll [ea]t as I would expect.
>
> I think most speakers would pronounce -ly with a long e sound as in eat,
> not [i]f which I would also pronounce as vowel in "bit". Yet the [i]f
> character is used. Does [i]f have two sounds?
>
> Thanks,
> -mitch
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
|
| 1143 |
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Sun Sep 2, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: An old fan of Shavian with a question
|
| |
I don't think this chart is correct. A shavian writer should always write
all Rs. I pasted stickers on my keyboard and studied the phonetics available
at
http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/
(look for the Quikscript/Shavian comparison chart)
Ewout
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Aan: shavian@yahoogroups.com <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: dinsdag 14 augustus 2001 9:49
Onderwerp: [shavian] Re: An old fan of Shavian with a question
>Star,
>
>There are several websites with good charts.
>
>Here is one that is on the yahoogroups server.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/grapheme-phoneme-key-
>charts/shavian-ipa-keybd16.gif
>
>Perhaps this will help.
>
>It relates the shavian symbols to IPA and the ascii keyboard
>positions.
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve
>
>
>--- In shavian@y..., warriorprincess@g... wrote:
>> Hello all, from a Shavian across the pond!
>>
>> I learned about shavian from my senior english book in high school
>> and I have since been fascinated by writing systems. (linguistics
>is
>> my hobby) I an amazed that so many people recognize the usefulness
>of
>> a system that works by phonetics rather than traditional spellings.
>> After all, who cares if you spell grey or gray, colour or color,
>> turck or lorrie (okay maybe not that last one). Anyway, my
>> question/observation is this: Shavian is missing one phenome to
>make
>> it american as well as english--the breathless "wh" versus the
>> breathed "w". This might have already been rehashed, but I'm
>willing
>> to hash it again ;)
>>
>> Love and happy writing,
>> Star
>>
>> ps. is there anyone who has a key to practicing handwritten Shavian?
>>
>> All hail George Bernard Shaw!
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
|
|
| 1144 |
From: John Cowan <cowan@c...>
Date: Thu Sep 6, 2001 9:34pm
Subject: Re: (beginner) How to transcribe -LY: [i]f versus [ea]t
|
| |
em pee scripsit:
> The prologue of Androcles and the Lion, in the first sentence and many
> others, transcribes words like "faintly" with an -ly suffix using [l]oll [i]f
> instead of [l]oll [ea]t as I would expect.
That reflects a conservative version of British Received Pronunciation.
Some other dialects do the same thing: U.S. ex-President Jimmy Carter
uses the same vowel in both syllables of his first name.
--
John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@c...
Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact,
at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door.
--sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan
|
|
|
|
Yahoo! Sponsored Links
|
Write Any Book in 28 Days, 1 Hour a Day:
New course shows how to write a book in under 1 month, working 1 hour a
day - 100% guaranteed. From novels to screenplays to non-fiction,
popular author Nick Daws unveils all. $49.95.
www.writequickly.com
Book Writing Software? Beat Any Price!:
We'll beat any advertised price on Book Writing Software including
Dramatica and Power Structure. Plus free Writer's Bonus Package with
purchase!
storymind.com
Book Writing Software:
Newnovelist is quick to install, easy to learn and fun to use, and has
already helped over 30,000 people who want to become the next JK
Rowling.
www.newnovelist.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
= Owner
= Moderator
= Online
