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1269

From:   Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
Date: Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:09am
Subject: Re: What a stressful week!
 
> when I try to say Further, it actually sounds like Furthur to me.
> Saying Furtharr makes it sound vaguely British.

it isn't furtharr, Array uses the schwa (lack of stress u sound) plus
r, while err uses a stressed u + r sound.

So you have f, stressed u+r, voiced th, unstressed schwa+r.

--Star

=====
"Having been unpopular in high school is not just cause for book publications."
-Frank Lebowitz

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1270

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Sat Mar 16, 2002 11:04am
Subject: Re: Sand Trap!!!
 
See below as usual...
----- Original Message -----
From: Flyfisher
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: [shavian] Sand Trap!!!

Here we go again!!!
 
Foreword: The restauranteur had to perfect his kitchen, as it could not go forward without a permit. He would not permit any old pervert trying to pervert the perfect nature of his merry little daughter Mary.
 
 
forwDd: H restryntD hAd t pDfekt hiz kicun, Az it kUd not gO fPwDd wiTQt a pxmit.  hI wUd not pDmit enI Old pxvDt trFiN t pDvxt H pxfekt nEtjD v hiz mErI litul dytD /mErI.
I would tend to spell 'foreword' as fPwxd as the stress is equal on both syllables (as if it were two words stuck together), as opposed to 'forward' (fPwDd), where the stress is only on the first syllable.
tuda!
 
/rik

tady! :)

GhV
1271

From:   Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:31pm
Subject: Re: 2 questions answered: Fonts in mails etc....
 
 
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: geoflyfisher <geoflyfisher@yahoo.com>
Aan: shavian@yahoogroups.com <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Datum: vrijdag 15 maart 2002 19:51
Onderwerp: [shavian] 2 questions answered: Fonts in mails etc....

>Regarding getting the shavian into the posts... 
>
>I know of no other way, other than to use an email program which
>allows fonts.  Post to the board from that email program and the font
>shows up (for everyone who has the font installed.) 
>
>I usually use the ghoti font, but others use the androcles font or
>the lionspaw font.  If you have them all installed, you can read
>everyone.
>
>Second...  Someone asked what NewRomanji is.  Let me point out that
>it is Ewout Stam who has written a keyboard driver that uses a
>modified version of newromanji.  NewRomanji is a driver used by some
>oriental writers to get the characters of an oriental language out of
>a roman keyboard.  To the best of my understanding, the way Ewout
>uses it is as a chording keyboard for the pronounced english sounds
>which does its best to use the sounds which are most common and
>attach them to single keystrokes, making the less common sounds into
>two keystrokes.
 
Not quite, but I have written some stuff about my drivers (3 now) at
 
The page is buggy, though. Not everything works. But do take a look.
 
perhaps there is some NewRomaji documentation available at the saundspel group:
 
 
At least, that's where I got my information from.

 
/EvQt stym
 
1272

From: Robert McBroom <info@o...>
Date: Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:04pm
Subject: Re: What a stressful week!
 
I too am from the Midwest and it took me about 6 months to hear the difference between T and H.

I finally resorted to a mneumonic:  Shakespeare says to his girlfriend: "I lovest th(T)y th(H)ighs."

For better or worse, yes, I would call T sibilant.

Your other comment about King George also reminded my of an old problem I had with the Androcles transcription of "pity".  It goes piti,  which is to suggest that the first vowel sound and the second are identical..To my mind they certainly are not, amd I would write pitI.  When I say it the first way, I feel like a bad actor in a Noel Coward play.

After a year of doing this, I have begun to realize that the primary person you are writing Shavian to is yourself.  So why sacrifice your logic to the peculiarities of King George?


I will do a redo of the restaurant sentence from home where I can
write in shavian characters.

I must admit to not understanding your use of the two "th"s.. 

For reference, lets call the th of theater T and the th of the H,
which is the way I understand their use in the standard keyboard. 

As such T has a high pitched sss... of air between the tongue and the
upper teeth, just before the rest of the sound; while H has no escape
of air, the sound just starts with the tongue on the upper teeth.

I don't know if it sounds like that on the other side of the pond,
but here in the midwest (Ohio) that is the way I hear it.  I'd call
the difference a sibilant in the T, except that I don't really know
the definition of sibilant, and this is rough crowd in which to use
such a word wrongly.

I don't believe I would ever end a word without the T sound.  Few
words start with T... (for me) theater and thanks are the only ones
that comes to mind.  The, there, that, them, these, all begin with
H. 

As to being comfortable with (wiT) ar vs er, I understand the
difference now.  I pronounce them identically and had to look up the
keystroke for ar (D).  I have to go back to my keyboard driver and
figure out how I will rekey so that the much more common D comes out
when I type er and x comes out when I type something else
(ur "purhaps!")

One further...  The Androcles use of i instead of long e continues to
seem strange.  Perhaps King George pronounced all those words that
end in a y as though they ended with an i (with) sound.  If so he
must have sounded a lot like the characters in Gone with the Wind.
There is not much differnce between an i sound and an up sound.  

"Evra time ya do that, it makes ma vera sad."

I don't think I can ever buy into that kind of pronounciation.  I can
read it, but only as dialect.

Later!

/rik



--- In shavian@y..., "Hugh Birkenhead" wrote:
> Wow! What an amazing difference that makes!
>
> Compare what you just wrote with the text below, which is how I
would write what you did:
> GhV, TANks fP bIiN pESant. wiH nO fxHD adM, F wil mxmD nO
mP. /flFfiSD (Grik)
>
> Unbelievable - now the only differences are in the T in 'thanks'
(how it is in British accent) and the H in 'with' (ditto). So the
only differences now are true dialect-related ones. Where did you say
you come from again?
>
> Do you feel 'comfortable' using x and D like that, or does it feel
strange?
>
> Hugh
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Flyfisher
>   To: Shavian Group
>   Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:10 PM
>   Subject: [shavian] What a stressful week!
>
>
>   /hV,
>
>   HAnks fP bIiN pESant.
>
>   wiT nO fxHD adM, F wil mxmD nO mP.
>
>   /flFfiSD (/rik)
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>             
>       
>       
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
- /bob /mk/brMm
  /wUdstak  /nV /jDk

"wun simpol iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
 evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
                   - /JPJ /bxnRd /SY
1273

From: geoflyfisher <geoflyfisher@y...>
Date: Sun Mar 17, 2002 10:58pm
Subject: Re: What a stressful week!
 
Robert,

I believe I hear the difference. However, when I look at the card in
Androcles I see that "thigh" is the example word for T, and "they" is
the example for H. So I guess I still do not understand. By those
example words, I would expect thy thighs to be HF TFz.

(By the way, your email program was stuck on ghoti as you began to
write in roman again below... It reads fine if you translate
everything back to roman, but it is sure hard to read in Shavian!!)

/rik



--- In shavian@y..., Robert McBroom <info@o...> wrote:
> I too am from the Midwest and it took me about 6 months to hear the
> difference between T and H.
>
> I finally resorted to a mneumonic: Shakespeare says to his
> girlfriend: "I lovest th(T)y th(H)ighs."
>
> For better or worse, yes, I would call T sibilant.
>
> Your other comment about King George also reminded my of an old
> problem I had with the Androcles transcription of "pity". It goes
> piti, which is to suggest that the first vowel sound and the
second
> are identical..To my mind they certainly are not, amd I would write
> pitI. When I say it the first way, I feel like a bad actor in a
Noel
> Coward play.
>
> After a year of doing this, I have begun to realize that the
primary
> person you are writing Shavian to is yourself. So why sacrifice
your
> logic to the peculiarities of King George?
>
1274

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: What a stressful week!
 
See below...
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 5:04 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: What a stressful week!

I too am from the Midwest and it took me about 6 months to hear the difference between T and H.

I finally resorted to a mneumonic:  Shakespeare says to his girlfriend: "I lovest th(T)y th(H)ighs."
 
Oops :-/ wouldn't that be "I lovest th(H)y th(T)ighs"?

For better or worse, yes, I would call T sibilant.

Your other comment about King George also reminded my of an old problem I had with the Androcles transcription of "pity".  It goes piti,  which is to suggest that the first vowel sound and the second are identical..To my mind they certainly are not, amd I would write pitI.  When I say it the first way, I feel like a bad actor in a Noel Coward play.
 
You don't have to write that like Androcles does. That's why I don't either; I would write 'pitI' as well.

After a year of doing this, I have begun to realize that the primary person you are writing Shavian to is yourself.  So why sacrifice your logic to the peculiarities of King George?
 
You don't have to. The 'King George accent' described in the book hardly affects anything at all, besides the use of 'i' as you mentioned, and also the use of 'y' instead of 'A' in words such as 'past', 'grass', etc.
 
Hugh
1275

From: skilbo11834 <usmaak@a...>
Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:49am
Subject: More tests!!
 
I really like those sentences that test my Shavian writing ability.
You know, like the Foreword one from a few days ago. Are there any
others that I can play with?
1276

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: More tests!!
 
You could try Shaw's own Phonemic Alphabet test piece, if you haven't seen it already. It's rather long, but worth at least one attempt.
 

"Chang at leisure was superior to Lynch in his rouge, munching a lozenge at the burial in Merrion Square of Hyperion the Alien who valued his billiards so highly. Quick! Quick! Hear the queer story how father and son one time sat in the house man to man eating bread and telling the tale of the fir on the road to the city by the sea following the coast to its fall full two fathoms deep. There they lived together served by the carrier, whose narrower mind through beer was sore and whose poor boy shivered over the fire all day lingering in a tangle of tactless empty instinct, ineptly swallowing quarts of stingo. [Why did he and his father bother to behave so whimsically in such weather?]

 

I should probably mention that Bob Richmond added the last sentence (in brackets). It's definitely worth keeping it there. I wonder where Bob is these days...

 

Hugh

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:49 AM
Subject: [shavian] More tests!!

I really like those sentences that test my Shavian writing ability. 
You know, like the Foreword one from a few days ago.  Are there any
others that I can play with?
1277

From: geoflyfisher <geoflyfisher@y...>
Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:29pm
Subject: Re: More tests!!
 
I propose a slightly shorter paragraph than the Shaw paragraph:

"Many years ago, I contracted an intimacy with a Mr. William
Legrand. He was of an ancient Huguenot family, and had once been
wealthy; but a series of misfortunes had reduced him to want. To
avoid the mortification consequent upon his disasters, he left New
Orleans, the city of his forefathers, and took up his residence at
Sullivan's Island, near Charleston, South Carolina."

Extra credit to the first person who notes in this group from where
the quote comes and its author. (Please note if you had it memorized
or how you found the reference.)

/rik

--- In shavian@y..., "skilbo11834" <usmaak@a...> wrote:
> I really like those sentences that test my Shavian writing
ability.
> You know, like the Foreword one from a few days ago. Are there any
> others that I can play with?
1278

From: Flyfisher <geoflyfisher@y...>
Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 9:46pm
Subject: New challenge
 
Of course, I need to answer the mail myself! 
 
menI jIrz agO, F kontrAktid an intamusI wiH a /misD /wiljam /lagrynd.  hI waz v An Encant /hVganO fAmlI, n hAd wans bin welTI; bat a sIrIz v misfPcanz hAd ridMsd him t want.  t avqd H mPtifikESan konsekwent upon hiz dizAstDs, hI left /nM /Plinz, H citI v hiz fPfyHDz, n tUk up hiz rezidans At /sulivan's /Flan, nIr /cyrlstan, /sQT /kErOlFna.
 
/rik
1279

From: Michael Fitzgerald <mchlf@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: More tests!!
 
Hullo,

here's my attempt - still can't get my mail to view
any Shavian fonts, though it sees plenty of other odd
ones and can view yours O.K. - didn't have much time
to check this over lunch (it took 45 mins! - I'm so
slow at typing in Shavian...). I've attached it as an
.htm file in case that's easier to view...

best regards,
Michael



MenI jDz agO, F kantrAkad an intamasI wih a Gmista
GwilWm
Glagrond. HI waz v an Encant GhVganO fAmlI, n had wons
bIn
welTI; bat a sCiz v misfYcMnz had radVst him t wont. t

avqd H mYtifikESan konsukwant upon hiz dizAstaz, hI
left GnV
GylWnz, H sitI v hiz fYfyHDz, n tUk up hiz rezidans at

Gsulivanz GFland, nC Gcylstan, GsQT GkArolFna.>

__________________________________________________
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MenI jDz agO, F kantrAkad an intamasI wih a Gmista GwilWm

Glagrond. HI waz v an Encant GhVganO fAmlI, n had wons bIn

welTI; bat a sCiz v misfYcMnz had radVst him t wont. t

avqd H mYtifikESan konsukwant upon hiz dizAstaz, hI left GnV

GylWnz, H sitI v hiz fYfyHDz, n tUk up hiz rezidans at

Gsulivanz GFland, nC Gcylstan, GsQT GkArolFna.

 

 

 
1280

From: usmaak <usmaak@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 0:49am
Subject: The Test, Part One
 
Ok, here goes...
 
"Chang at leisure was superior to Lynch in his rouge, munching a lozenge at the burial in Merrion Square of Hyperion the Alien who valued his billiards so highly. Quick! Quick! Hear the queer story how father and son one time sat in the house man to man eating bread and telling the tale of the fir on the road to the city by the sea following the coast to its fall full two fathoms deep. There they lived together served by the carrier, whose narrower mind through beer was sore and whose poor boy shivered over the fire all day lingering in a tangle of tactless empty instinct, ineptly swallowing quarts of stingo. [Why did he and his father bother to behave so whimsically in such weather?]
 
cAN At lIZD wuz supCID t /linc in hiz rMZ, munciN a losenJ At H bXIal in /merW skwX v /hFpXIan H ElIan hM vAlVd hiz biljRds sO hFlI.  kwik!  kwik!  hC H kwIr stPI hQ fYHD n sun wun tFm sAt in H hQs mAn t mAn ItiN bred n teliN H tEl v H fx on H rOd t H sitI bF H sI fYlOiN H kOst t its fYl fUl tM fAHamz dIp.  HX HE livd tageHD sxvd bF H kArIar, hMz nArOD mFnd TrM bIr wuz sP n hMz pP bq SivDd OvD H fFx Yl dE liNgDiN in a tANgal v tAktles emptI instiNkt, ineptlI swYlOiN kwPts v stiNgO. [wF did hI n hiz fyHD bYHD t bIhEv sO wimziklI in suc weHD?]
 
How did I do?
1281

From: usmaak <usmaak@a...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 1:00am
Subject: The Test, Part Two
 
"Many years ago, I contracted an intimacy with a Mr. William
Legrand.  He was of an ancient Huguenot family, and had once been
wealthy; but a series of misfortunes had reduced him to want.  To
avoid the mortification consequent upon his disasters, he left New
Orleans, the city of his forefathers, and took up his residence at
Sullivan's Island, near Charleston, South Carolina."
 
"menI jIrz agO, F kuntrAkted An intimasI wiT a /mistD wiljan lagrAnd.  hI wuz v An Encent /hVganO fAmlI, n hAd wuns ben welTI; but a sCIz v misfPcanz hAd rIdMst him t wYnt.  t avQd H mPtifikESan konsakwent upon hiz disAstDz, hI left /nM PlInz, H sitI v hiz fPfYHDz, n tUk up hiz rezidens At /sulivenz Flend, nIr /cRlstan, /sulT kArOlFna."
 
How'd I do?
1282

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:19am
Subject: Re: The Test, Part Two
 
"Many years ago, I contracted an intimacy with a Mr. William
Legrand.  He was of an ancient Huguenot family, and had once been
wealthy; but a series of misfortunes had reduced him to want.  To
avoid the mortification consequent upon his disasters, he left New
Orleans, the city of his forefathers, and took up his residence at
Sullivan's Island, near Charleston, South Carolina."
 
Can't resist it.
 
menI jCz agO, F kantrAktad an intamasI wiH a mr /wiljam /lagrond. hI woz v an EnSant /hVgnO fAmalI, n hAd wuns bIn welTI; but a sCIz v misfPcanz hAd ridVst him t wont. t avqd H mPtafikESan konsakwant apon hiz dizystDz, hI left /nV /PlInz, H sitI v hiz fPfyHDz, n tUk up hiz resadans At /sulavan'z /Fland, nC /cRlstan, /sQT /kAralFna.
 
Did I pronounce all the American names right? :)
1283

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:28am
Subject: Re: The Test, Part One
 
F'd lFl t trF His agen Az it's bIn At lIst a jC sins F rOt it lyst...
 
GcAN At leZD woz sMpCID t /linc in hiz rMZ, munciN a lozanJ At H berIal in /merIan /skwX v /hFpCIan H ElIan hM vAlVd hiz biljDdz sO hFlI. kwik! kwik! hC H kwC stPI hQ fyHD n sun wun tFm sAt in H hQs mAn t mAn ItiN bred n teliN H tEl v H fx on H rOd t H sitI bF H sI folOiN H kOst t its fYl fUl tM fAHamz dIp. HX HE livd tageHD sxvd bF H kArID, hMz nArOD mFnd TrM bC woz sP n hMz pP bq SivDd OvD H fFD Yl dE liNgDiN in a tANgal v tAktlas emptI instiNkt, ineptlI swolOiN kwPts v stiNgO. [wF did hI n hiz fyHD boHD t bihEv sO wimsiklI in suc weHD?]
----- Original Message -----
From: usmaak
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:49 AM
Subject: [shavian] The Test, Part One

Ok, here goes...
 
"Chang at leisure was superior to Lynch in his rouge, munching a lozenge at the burial in Merrion Square of Hyperion the Alien who valued his billiards so highly. Quick! Quick! Hear the queer story how father and son one time sat in the house man to man eating bread and telling the tale of the fir on the road to the city by the sea following the coast to its fall full two fathoms deep. There they lived together served by the carrier, whose narrower mind through beer was sore and whose poor boy shivered over the fire all day lingering in a tangle of tactless empty instinct, ineptly swallowing quarts of stingo. [Why did he and his father bother to behave so whimsically in such weather?]
 
cAN At lIZD wuz supCID t /linc in hiz rMZ, munciN a losenJ At H bXIal in /merW skwX v /hFpXIan H ElIan hM vAlVd hiz biljRds sO hFlI.  kwik!  kwik!  hC H kwIr stPI hQ fYHD n sun wun tFm sAt in H hQs mAn t mAn ItiN bred n teliN H tEl v H fx on H rOd t H sitI bF H sI fYlOiN H kOst t its fYl fUl tM fAHamz dIp.  HX HE livd tageHD sxvd bF H kArIar, hMz nArOD mFnd TrM bIr wuz sP n hMz pP bq SivDd OvD H fFx Yl dE liNgDiN in a tANgal v tAktles emptI instiNkt, ineptlI swYlOiN kwPts v stiNgO. [wF did hI n hiz fyHD bYHD t bIhEv sO wimziklI in suc weHD?]
 
How did I do?


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
1284

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 4:32pm
Subject: Some material to feast on...!
 
It's about time there was a bit of nice reading material for you all to chomp on. Here are a few items I knocked up yesterday that might prove fun to read. They are written in the Shaw Roman no.1 font (available here), just as a change from the Ghoti and Lionspaw fonts we're all used to. If anyone wants even more fonts, I can post links to every Shavian font I know in my next posting.
 
Hugh
 
sum iNgliS-spIkiN kuntrIz' nASanal AnTamz
 

/god sEv H /kwIn

 

god sEv QD grESas kwIn,

loN liv QD nObal kwIn,

/god sEv H /kwIn!

send hx viktPIas,

hApI n glPIas,

loN t rEn OvD us,

/god sEv H kwIn!

 

O /lPd QD /god DFz,

skAtD hx enamIz

n mEk Hem fYl;

kanfQnd HX polatiks,

frustrEt HX nEviS triks,

on HI QD hOps wI fiks,

O, sEv us Yl!

 

HF cqsast gifts in stP

on hx bI plIzd t pP;

loN mE SI rEn;

mE SI difend QD lYz,

n evD giv us kYz

t siN wiH hRt n vqs,

/god sEv H /kwIn!

 

H /stR /spANgald /bAnD

 

O sE kAn V sI, bF H dYn'z xlI lFt,

wot sO prQdlI wI hEld At H twFlFt's lyst glImiN?

hMz brYd strFps n brFt stRz, TrM H peralas fFt,

O'D H rApRts wI woct, wx sO gAlantlI strImiN?

n H rokits' red glX, H bomz bxstiN in X,

gEv prMf TrM H nFt HAt QD flAg woz stil HX.

O sE, duz HAt stR-spANgald bAnD jet wEv

O'D H lAnd v H frI n H hOm v H brEv?

 

on H SP, dimlI sIn TrM H mists v H dIp,

wX H fO'z hYtI hOst in dred sFlans ripOzaz,

wot iz HAt wic H brIz, O'D H tQDiN stIp,

Az it fitfalI blOz, nQ kansIlz, nQ disklOzaz?

nQ it kAcaz H glIm v H mPniN'z fxst bIm,

in fUl glPI riflektad nQ SFnz on H strIm:

'tiz H stR-spANgald bAnD! O loN mE it wEv

O'D H lAnd b H frI n H hOm v H brEv.

 

n wX iz HAt bAnd hM sO vYntiNlI swP

HAt H hAvak v wP n H bAtal'z kanfVZan

a hOm n a kuntrI SUd lIv us nO mP?

HX blud hAz wFpt Qt HX fQl fUtstep's palMSan.

nO refVJ kUd sEv H hFDliN n slEv

from H terD v flFt, P H glMm v H grEv:

n H stR-spANgald bAnd in trFumf doT wEv

O'D H lAnd v H frI n H hOm b H brEv.

 

O! Hus bI it evD, wen frImen SAl stAnd

batwIn HX luvd hOmz n H wP'z desalESan!

blest wiH viktDI n pIs, mE H hevan-reskVd lAnd

prEz H pQD HAt hAT mEd n prazxvd a nESan.

Hen koNkD wI must, wen QD kYz it iz Just,

n His bI QD motO: "in /god iz QD trust."

n H stR-spANgald bAnD in trFumf SAl wEv

O'D H lAnd v H frI n H hOm v H brEv!

 

/frynsis /skot /kI (1779-1843)

 

anvyns /ostrElIa fX

 

/ostrElIanz Yl let us riJqs,

fP wI R juN n frI;

wI'v gOldan sql n welT fP tql;

QD hOm iz gxt bF sI;

QD lAnd abQndz in nEcD'z gifts

v bVtI ric n rX;

in histDI'z pEJ, let evrI stEJ

avdyns /ostrElIa fX.

in Jqfal strEnz Hen let us siN,

advyns /ostrElIa fX.

 

binIT QD rEdIant suHDn kros

wI'l tql wiH hRts n hAndz;

t mEk His /komanwelT v QDz

rinQnd v Yl H lAndz;

fP HOz hM'v kum akros H sIz

wI'v bQndlas plEnz t SX;

wiH kuriJ let us Yl kambFn

t advyns /ostrElIa fX.

in Jqfal strEnz Hen let us siN,

advyns /ostrElIa fX.

 

O /kAnada

 

O /kAnada!

QD hOm n nEtiv lAnd!

trM pEtrIat luv in Yl HF sunz kamynd.

wiH glOiN hRts wI sI HI rFz,

H trM nPT stroN n frI!

from fR n wFd,

O /kAnada, wI stAnd on gRd fP HI.

/god kIp QD lAnd glPIas n frI!

O /kAnada, wI stAnd on gPd fP HI.

O /kAnada, wI stAnd on gRd fP HI.

 

/lPd bles [sQT] /Afrika

 

/lPd, bles /Afrika

mE hx spirit rFz hF up

hC HQ QD prEDz

/lPd bles us.

 

/lPd, bles /Afrika

mE hx spirit rFz hF up

hC HQ QD prEDz

/lPd bles us

jP fAmalI.

 

kPas

disend, O spirit

disend, O hOlI spirit

lPd bles us

jP famalI.

(ripIt)

 

/god difend /nV /zIland

 

/god v nESanz! At HF fIt

in H bondz v luv wI mIt,

hC QD vQsaz, wI intrIt,

/god difend QD frI lAnd.

gRd /pasifik's tripal stR,

from H Syfts v strFf n wP,

mEk hx prEzaz hxd afR,

/god dafend /nV /zIland.

 

men v evrI krId n rEs

gAHD hC bifP hF fFs,

yskiN HI t bles His plEs,

/god difend QD frI lAnd.

from disenSan, envI, hEt,

n kDupSan gRd QD stEt,

mEk QD kuntrI kUd n grEt,

/god difend /nV /zIland.

 

pIs, not wP, SAl bI QD bOst,

but, SUd fOz asEl QD kOst,

mEk us Hen a mFtI hOst,

/god difend QD frI lAnd.

lPd v bAtalz in HF mFt,

pUt QD enamIz t flFt,

let QD kYz bI Just n rFt,

/god difend /nV /zIland.

 

let QD luv fP HI inkrIs,

mE HF blesiNz nevD sIs,

giv us plentI, giv us pIs,

/god difend QD frI lAnd.

from disonD n from SEm

gRd QD kuntrI'z spotlas nEm

krQn hx wiH imPtal fEm,

/god difend /nV /zIland.

 

mE QD mQntanz evD bI

frIdam'z rAmpRts on H sI,

mEk us fETfal untM HI,

/god difend QD frI lAnd.

gFd hx in H nESan'z vAn,

prIciN luv n trMT t mAn,

wxkiN Qt HX glPIas plAn,

/god difend /nV /zIland.

 
1285

From:   Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
Date: Sat Mar 23, 2002 2:59pm
Subject: Re: Some material to feast on...!
 
Link requested Error 404 not found
--star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...> wrote:
> It's about time there was a bit of nice reading material for you all
> to chomp on. Here are a few items I knocked up yesterday that might
> prove fun to read. They are written in the Shaw Roman no.1 font
> (available here), just as a change from the Ghoti and Lionspaw fonts
> we're all used to. If anyone wants even more fonts, I can post links
> to every Shavian font I know in my next posting.
>
> Hugh


=====
"Having been unpopular in high school is not just cause for book publications."
-Frank Lebowitz

__________________________________________________
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1286

From:   Ewout Stam <teraiten@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 8:59pm
Subject: A comparison of English Reform schemes
 
This file I recently dug up.
 
It contains a comparison of various reforms for English. You will need a few fonts in order to view it properly. These are:
 
SILDoulousIPA    - search the web for this font, it is widely available.
Ghoti            - Most Shavian Web sites have this font
Jerome           - Most Quickscript sites have this font, it is also
                   in the group files section of
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet
Unifon           - Get it at Unifon.org
 
Okay, this is a rather old file, and I believe much of it is incorrect. Correction will be much appreciated. I'm very incertain about the grey colored areas.
 
As you will see I differentiate between 'posh' and 'US' pronunciations. Posh is English the way I learn it in school. It believe it is also called 'Recieved Pronunciation (RP)' or 'Queen's English'. 'US' simply means that all 'r' sounds are pronounced. This is more or less 'TV-English' as I call it (in Holland there are many American TV series with subtitles, dubbing is very rare in here. Only little children who can't read get dubbed shows. More than 50% of Dutch TV on the so called 'commercielen', commercial channels, consists of English shows)
 
You will also notice the 'A ribbel' sound. 'ribbel' is Dutch for crincle or something. The true symbol I was looking for is a script 'a' with a nasalisation mark above it (similar to the tilde sign). This sound is very rare in English but it was included in the phonetics part of my dictionary.
 
And for completeness I have also included the 'loch' sound.
 
Tell me what you think.
 
/EvQt stym
Attachment: (application/msword) A comparison of spelling reforms.rtf [not stored]
1287

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Sat Mar 23, 2002 3:51pm
Subject: Re: Some material to feast on...!
 
OK, fixed it. Try it again.

Hugh

----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@y...>
To: <shavian@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Some material to feast on...!


> Link requested Error 404 not found
> --star
>
> --- Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...> wrote:
> > It's about time there was a bit of nice reading material for you all
> > to chomp on. Here are a few items I knocked up yesterday that might
> > prove fun to read. They are written in the Shaw Roman no.1 font
> > (available here), just as a change from the Ghoti and Lionspaw fonts
> > we're all used to. If anyone wants even more fonts, I can post links
> > to every Shavian font I know in my next posting.
> >
> > Hugh
>
>
> =====
> "Having been unpopular in high school is not just cause for book
publications."
> -Frank Lebowitz
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
1288

From: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:20am
Subject: short function words and [any] in Shavian
 
Bob,

Considering the number of errors that were made in the
transcription that appears in the book, Androcles and
the Lion, there may not be any experts on Shavian
usage.

As you say,
t is the Shavian logogram or abbreviation for to /tM/.
n is the logogram for and /And/

With stress marking, "any" can be written /'enI/
This is the reverse of ITA conventions /'eni/ where I
= the short I

Without stress marking, we need a rule.
How do we express an unstressed vowel?
In English, a short vowel cannot be used in an open
vowel terminal position. So [ni] has to be i: or ai
--not mih. "defi erni"

Spanglish gets around the problem by interpreting the
terminal y as a schwi. "Wi gaeranti enny prodduct."
If more stress was required, which it isn't here,
it would be gaerantie.
REF: http://www.unifon.org/sp3.html

Regards,

Steve

--- Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@y...> wrote:
> Actually, I don't recall making any of the changes
> you mentioned, except for the tM, which (sorry) I
> just realized should have been just 't'.

> That aside, I tend to look at Shavian as a phonemic
> rather than a phonetic system, although the fact
> that the shwa is supported kind of
> requires you to face some subjective issues.
> So, were it not for the
> built-in abbreviation, I would probably stick with
> tM [for to], even if I don't
> pronounce it exactly that way in ordinary speech.

> Still, I now see your
> point in originally choosing tU; I had thought it
> was merely due to
> mixing up the functions of M and U. And I'm
> certainly not an expert on
> Shavian usage. --Bob

> --- Steve Bett <stbett@y...> wrote:
> > Bob,
> > Good job.
Your efforts have inspired me to spend more
time in upgrading this page. Thank you for
catching the transcription errors. --Steve

--- Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@y...> wrote:

Gettysburg Address

fPskP n sevan jirz agO, Qr fyHDz brYt fPT on His
kontinant a nV nESan, kansIvd in libDtI n dedikEtad t
H propasISan HAt Yl men R krIEtad Ikwal. nQ wI R
engEJd in a grEt sivil wP, testiN weHD HAt nESan P enI
nESan sO kansIvd n sO dedikEtad kAn loN endVr. wI R
met on a grEt bAtalfIld v HAt wP. wI hAv kum tM
dedikEt a pPSan ov HAt fIld Az a fFnal restiN plEs fP
HOz hM hC gEv Hx lFvz HAt HAt nESan mFt liv. it iz
YltMgeHD fitiN n propD HAt wI SUd dM His.

=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/
1289

From: Steve Bett <stbett@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:26am
Subject: Gettysburg Address in shavian
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/transcriptions/shaw-alfa.html

Bob,

Here is the revised page with your transcription of
the Gettysburg Address.

Thanks again for your help.

Steve


--- Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@y...> wrote:

=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/
1290

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 0:30pm
Subject: Re: short function words and [any] in Shavian
 
Where did this conversation begin?

I've a feeling we've missed a lot of what was going on here. :-/

It looks interesting though.

Hugh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Bett" <stbett@y...>
To: "Bob Schmertz" <rschmertz@y...>
Cc: <spanglish@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: [shavian] short function words and [any] in Shavian


> Bob,
>
> Considering the number of errors that were made in the
> transcription that appears in the book, Androcles and
> the Lion, there may not be any experts on Shavian
> usage.
>
> As you say,
> t is the Shavian logogram or abbreviation for to /tM/.
> n is the logogram for and /And/
>
> With stress marking, "any" can be written /'enI/
> This is the reverse of ITA conventions /'eni/ where I
> = the short I
>
> Without stress marking, we need a rule.
> How do we express an unstressed vowel?
> In English, a short vowel cannot be used in an open
> vowel terminal position. So [ni] has to be i: or ai
> --not mih. "defi erni"
>
> Spanglish gets around the problem by interpreting the
> terminal y as a schwi. "Wi gaeranti enny prodduct."
> If more stress was required, which it isn't here,
> it would be gaerantie.
> REF: http://www.unifon.org/sp3.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
> --- Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@y...> wrote:
> > Actually, I don't recall making any of the changes
> > you mentioned, except for the tM, which (sorry) I
> > just realized should have been just 't'.
>
> > That aside, I tend to look at Shavian as a phonemic
> > rather than a phonetic system, although the fact
> > that the shwa is supported kind of
> > requires you to face some subjective issues.
> > So, were it not for the
> > built-in abbreviation, I would probably stick with
> > tM [for to], even if I don't
> > pronounce it exactly that way in ordinary speech.
>
> > Still, I now see your
> > point in originally choosing tU; I had thought it
> > was merely due to
> > mixing up the functions of M and U. And I'm
> > certainly not an expert on
> > Shavian usage. --Bob
>
> > --- Steve Bett <stbett@y...> wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > > Good job.
> Your efforts have inspired me to spend more
> time in upgrading this page. Thank you for
> catching the transcription errors. --Steve
>
> --- Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@y...> wrote:
>
> Gettysburg Address
>
> fPskP n sevan jirz agO, Qr fyHDz brYt fPT on His
> kontinant a nV nESan, kansIvd in libDtI n dedikEtad t
> H propasISan HAt Yl men R krIEtad Ikwal. nQ wI R
> engEJd in a grEt sivil wP, testiN weHD HAt nESan P enI
> nESan sO kansIvd n sO dedikEtad kAn loN endVr. wI R
> met on a grEt bAtalfIld v HAt wP. wI hAv kum tM
> dedikEt a pPSan ov HAt fIld Az a fFnal restiN plEs fP
> HOz hM hC gEv Hx lFvz HAt HAt nESan mFt liv. it iz
> YltMgeHD fitiN n propD HAt wI SUd dM His.
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
1291

From: Newton, Philip <philip.newton@d...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: More tests!!
 
geoflyfisher wrote:
> Extra credit to the first person who notes in this group from where
> the quote comes and its author.

It's the opening paragraph of Edgar Allan Poe's "The Gold-Bug".

> (Please note if you had it memorized or how you found the
> reference.)

Google is your friend ;)

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
1292

From: Newton, Philip <philip.newton@d...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:05pm
Subject: Re: Some material to feast on...!
 
Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
> If anyone wants even more fonts, I can post links to every
> Shavian font I know in my next posting.

Please do.

Cheers,
philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
1293

From: geoflyfisher <geoflyfisher@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:22pm
Subject: Re: More tests!!
 
Philip is correct and first! I ran across the roman version of the
story when I was searching for web clues needed for a virtual
letterbox. It exists in full on the web.

************

I have been gone for a few days. While gone, I finished reading
Androcles and the Lion. As has been said before, we have very little
literature in Shavian. I am considering rendering the whole "Gold
Bug" story to Shavian. It has the advantage of being in the public
domain and also a wonderfully fun short story. It is long enough to
be worthwhile putting on a shelf, and short enough to think through
each word instead of doing by machine.

/rik

--- In shavian@y..., "Newton, Philip" <philip.newton@d...> wrote:
> geoflyfisher wrote:
> > Extra credit to the first person who notes in this group from
where
> > the quote comes and its author.
>
> It's the opening paragraph of Edgar Allan Poe's "The Gold-Bug".
>
> > (Please note if you had it memorized or how you found the
> > reference.)
>
> Google is your friend ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@d...>
> All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
> If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
1294

From: Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...>
Date: Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:42am
Subject: Re: Re: More tests!!
 
On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 09:22 , geoflyfisher wrote:

> I have been gone for a few days. While gone, I finished reading
> Androcles and the Lion. As has been said before, we have very little
> literature in Shavian. I am considering rendering the whole "Gold
> Bug" story to Shavian. It has the advantage of being in the public
> domain and also a wonderfully fun short story. It is long enough to
> be worthwhile putting on a shelf, and short enough to think through
> each word instead of doing by machine.
>
> /rik
>
I am some literature on my site. If you have any specific requests for
more please let me know.

--Scott
1295

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Tue Mar 26, 2002 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: More tests!!
 
F YlsO hAv kwFt a sFzabal amQnt v matCIal At mF websFt - adres in signacD.
 
F hAv kurantlI finiSt trAnzlitDEtiN sevDal mP Rtakalz; F wil pOst Hem t H vYlt Az sMn Az F get a cyns.
 
GhV Gbxkanhed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: More tests!!


On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 09:22 , geoflyfisher wrote:

> I have been gone for a few days.  While gone, I finished reading
> Androcles and the Lion.  As has been said before, we have very little
> literature in Shavian.  I am considering rendering the whole "Gold
> Bug" story to Shavian.  It has the advantage of being in the public
> domain and also a wonderfully fun short story.  It is long enough to
> be worthwhile putting on a shelf, and short enough to think through
> each word instead of doing by machine.
>
> /rik
>
I am some literature on my site.  If you have any specific requests for
more please let me know.

--Scott



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
1296

From:   Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@u...>
Date: Tue Mar 26, 2002 3:31pm
Subject: SHAVIAN FONTS LIST
 
As requested, here is a list of all Shavian fonts currently available (that I know of). I have placed them all on my website for download - I don't expect their creators to be altering them any time soon, and indeed, most web sites that used to hold them seem to have been shut down. At present the list only includes PC-compatible typefaces - if there is interest I will go in search of Mac fonts too.
 
 
Hope this will prove helpful to all.
 
Hugh Birkenhead
1297

From: <RSRICHMOND@a...>
Date: Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:27am
Subject: SHAVIAN FONTS LIST
 
Hugh Birkenhead says:

>>At present the list only includes PC-compatible typefaces - if there is
interest I will go in search of Mac fonts too<<

I need Mac fonts - does anyone else?

Bob Richmond
1298

From: Lee <leehickenlooper@m...>
Date: Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:32am
Subject: Re: SHAVIAN FONTS LIST
 
I'm a Mac person too!

Lee Hickenlooper

on 3/26/02 11:27 PM, RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:

Hugh Birkenhead says:

>>At present the list only includes PC-compatible typefaces - if there is
interest I will go in search of Mac fonts too<<

I need Mac fonts - does anyone else?

Bob Richmond

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