Welcome Carl

It is nice to find someone agreeable. Any more questions?

Interesting the number of off-beat opinions amoung our group.
Star seems to be expressing some Zen beliefs. And I come from a pre-
christian sect, rather well thought of by the LDS.

I actually did learned some of the non-religous lessons of Zen
Buddism when I was in my 20's. The most important things can be found
in a puff of air.

Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, Star Raven
wrote:
> oh whoops... I think I'm a little behind on the times... it was,
um, a
> belated welcome?
>
> --Star
>
> --- Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Star Raven"
> >
> > > Cool, Good for you, and welcome to the group.
> >
> > Erm, he's been here at least 4 months I think :-P
> >
> > Hugh B
> >
>
>
> =====
> From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha.     --Zen Master
Hakuin
>
> __________________________________
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi Everybody

What happenned?? There hasn't been a post for more than a week.
Is someone offended again? Is lurking contagious? Is Hugh on holidays?
Is there anything I can do???
I depend on this site
for intellectual stimulation, and I feel deprived.
Deprived from my main source of stimulating new ideas.

On another topic.
I was trying to find some good sample words, where the "Up" sound
is used  to begin a syllable inside a word.
I only found it in pen-ultimate and in-advertently, so far.
It seems that the "Up" sounds degenerates into "Ado", in any
unstressed syllable, in normal English pronunciation.

Regards, Paul V.  

P.S. There is a lot of good stuff on www.omniglot.com


--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
wrote:
P.S. There is a lot of good stuff on www.omniglot.com.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> Because of it I am now
> proficient in over 7 writing systems.  Which are as follows: 1.
> Shavian, 2. Unifon, 3. Deseret, 4. Aurek-besh, 5. Standard Galactic
> Alphabet, 6. Atlantean, and 7. Tengwar.

The last three of these are made up by writers/video game programmers.
I'll stick to shavian, thanks.

:)

In the frigid frigid mountains of TN,
--Star

=====
From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha.     --Zen Master Hakuin

__________________________________
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Hi Carl
Thanks for responding.
I find a wealth of information in Omniglot. For example it shows
that there are a number of working Syllabic Alphabets, where
diacritics can represent vowels. This support my contention that
Consonants need to be Primary and Vowels Secondary in size to
increase the recognisability of words. In an ideal, logically
consistent Alphabet, it would be the consonants, which stand out.
The Shaw Alphabet inculcates this principle to a certain extent by
making most of the simple vowel letters less than one half the size
of the consonant letters.

As a Canadian, I have Basic French, from school and a few trips to
Montreal. Also I have some Hebrew via self-study.

Glad you got the NTC's Dictionary of American English Pronunciation,
from the library. You'll find it invaluable for transliteration.
It's subset of the I.P.A. maps so nicely onto the Shaw Alphabet,
that it could have edited by an Americanized Kingsley Read.
There is simple one to one correspondence, which reflects the
importance of the Schwa (Ado) in Modern American pronunciation.

Regards, Paul Vandenbrink

P.S. Unifon is a nifty system too. I don't know why it has died out
as a teaching Alphabet.

--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, carl easton wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Sorry I haven't sent in another article for this discussion
group.  Paul I am a huge fan of omniglot.com.  Because of it I am
now proficient in over 7 writing systems.  Which are as follows: 1.
Shavian, 2. Unifon, 3. Deseret, 4. Aurek-besh, 5. Standard Galactic
Alphabet, 6. Atlantean, and 7. Tengwar.
> 
> Oh yeah,  I've been playing with the idea of creating an a priori
language which uses shavian letters.
> 
> But I still love English.  Though I know basic German and
Swedish.  So I just barely got the NTC's Dictionary of American
English Pronunciation, from the library.  I remember months ago this
item was mentioned for standardization of Shavian Spelling.  So
finally I have a chance to look into it.
> 
> write you later,
> 
> Carl
>
>
> paul vandenbrink wrote:
> Hi Everybody
>
> What happenned?? There hasn't been a post for more than a week.
> Is someone offended again? Is lurking contagious? Is Hugh on
holidays?
> Is there anything I can do???
> I depend on this site
> for intellectual stimulation, and I feel deprived.
> Deprived from my main source of stimulating new ideas.
>
> On another topic.
> I was trying to find some good sample words, where the "Up" sound
> is used  to begin a syllable inside a word.
> I only found it in pen-ultimate and in-advertently, so far.
> It seems that the "Up" sounds degenerates into "Ado", in any
> unstressed syllable, in normal English pronunciation.
>
> Regards, Paul V.  
>
> P.S. There is a lot of good stuff on www.omniglot.com
>
>
> --- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
> wrote:
> P.S. There is a lot of good stuff on www.omniglot.com.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Two things
First.
"n bIiN v wun rEs grEtli fasilitEts suc acIvment"
sounds slightly racist. Replace the word "race" with "culture"
or "religion" or "ideology" and I would give it a higher truth
quotient.
And hey. I am much more of a Shavian than I am a Jew. Religion is
somewhat minimalized in my Western culture.
Also as a Benefits of our modern information overload.
I am even familar with LDS, Zen Buddists and Wiccins and tons of of
RCs and other garden variety Christians. So. I can still talk to them
about the other stuff. I even get along with Pagans, most of the time.
(Sorry. I couldn't resist that.)

Secondly, the whole premise that there is one best way to do
everything and everybody should get on the bandwagon, is
intellectually unsound. In an infinite world there a lot more than
one of anything. Improvements come from debate. (Dialacitics?)

And from a scientific understanding, evolution is based on variation
and mutation. Not on ideals. As the world changes, so must life in
its myrid forms.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Back to Shavian, anyone?

--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, kirk desimus wrote:
>
> hapi 100th! n weLkum....
>
> a praktis rEding:
>
> nO evolMSanEri wDld kAn hOp t progres bejond H fDst stEJ v enlFtend
stAbiliti until it hAz acIvd wun laNgwaJ, wun reliJon, n wun
filosofi; n bIiN v wun rEs grEtli fasilitEts suc acIvment. 55:3
>
> ycq? wI sEk U?
>
> TH SZ c I E AF O UM Qq yY RP [Er] DC WV 22
>
> TH SZ c I E AF O UM Qq yY RP Er DC WV
>
> [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[  kirk
>
>
> j_brg wrote:Hello!
>
> I've just become the 100th member of this group, do I get a prize?
>
> More seriously though, hello to everybody! I hope I will be useful
> somehow.
>
> I've been interested in shavian for some time now, I think I'm
> another omniglot.com fanatic. That guy has alot to answer for...
>
> Thanks
> Joseph
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english
>
> t = to   e = the   v = of   n = and 
>
> AEIOU az in Age Eat Ice Oak yoU
>
> digrafs: ah au ch oo ou oi/oy sh th zh.
>
> http://groups.msn.com/konsosiashunforspiritualiti
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

(We should really write a Shavian FAQ to answer things like this)

 

The difference is stress.

 

- 'Err' is the stressed "er" sound in "Curve", "first" "fervent", etc.

- 'Array' is the unstressed "er" sound in "butter", "forget", "iterate", etc.

 

For Americans (and for all intents and purposes for Brits too) there is 99% of the time no phonetic difference between the two. Just think to yourself, "when I say this, do I stress the er sound or not" (e.g. "fORward"/"fOREwORd"), and, "if there are two or more 'er' sounds in this word, when I say them, which ones do I stress and which ones don't I" (e.g. "pertURb" [pDtxb], "mURder" [mxdD], "pERvERt" [pxvxt]). There's only a difference to keep some element of knowing where the stress is in Shavian writing. Quikscript removed the difference with the aim of removing the confusion it obviously causes to anyone who hasn't studied phonetics to any degree.

 

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----

From: carl easton

To: shavian@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:51 PM

Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: 100th member

Hi Paul,

 

You are Right. This discussion group is about Shavian. (not ethnic stuff like culture or religion.)  And for the Shavian discussion whats the difference between 'err' and 'array'.  I pretty much use all of the Shavian letters in my handwriting though I'm no longer can tell the difference between 'err' and 'array'.

 

anybody can help with this,

 

thanks,

 

Carl

paul vandenbrink wrote:

Two things
First.
"n bIiN v wun rEs grEtli fasilitEts suc acIvment"
sounds slightly racist. Replace the word "race" with "culture"
or "religion" or "ideology" and I would give it a higher truth
quotient.
And hey. I am much more of a Shavian than I am a Jew. Religion is
somewhat minimalized in my Western culture.
Also as a Benefits of our modern information overload.
I am even familar with LDS, Zen Buddists and Wiccins and tons of of
RCs and other garden variety Christians. So. I can still talk to them
about the other stuff. I even get along with Pagans, most of the time.
(Sorry. I couldn't resist that.)

Secondly, the whole premise that there is one best way to do
everything and everybody should get on the bandwagon, is
intellectually unsound. In an infinite world there a lot more than
one of anything. Improvements come from debate. (Dialacitics?)

And from a scientific understanding, evolution is based on variation
and mutation. Not on ideals. As the world changes, so must life in
its myrid forms.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Back to Shavian, anyone?

--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, kirk desimus wrote:
>
> hapi 100th! n weLkum....
>
> a praktis rEding:
>
> nO evolMSanEri wDld kAn hOp t progres bejond H fDst stEJ v enlFtend
stAbiliti until it hAz acIvd wun laNgwaJ, wun reliJon, n wun
filosofi; n bIiN v wun rEs grEtli fasilitEts suc acIvment. 55:3
>
> ycq? wI sEk U?
>
> TH SZ c I E AF O UM Qq yY RP [Er] DC WV 22
>
> TH SZ c I E AF O UM Qq yY RP Er DC WV
>
> [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[  kirk
>
>
> j_brg wrote:Hello!
>
> I've just become the 100th member of this group, do I get a prize?
>
> More seriously though, hello to everybody! I hope I will be useful
> somehow.
>
> I've been interested in shavian for some time now, I think I'm
> another omniglot.com fanatic. That guy has alot to answer for...
>
> Thanks
> Joseph
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english
>
> t = to   e = the   v = of   n = and 
>
> AEIOU az in Age Eat Ice Oak yoU
>
> digrafs: ah au ch oo ou oi/oy sh th zh.
>
> http://groups.msn.com/konsosiashunforspiritualiti
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

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The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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